senecacaptain

Just to clarify the Flow-Thru program in place between AA/Envoy/et al, my understanding if AA furloughs, those AA pilots can Flow-BACK to AA regional partners, versus be sent to the street.

Correct ?

I may have this all incorrect, just wanted to clarify

rld1k

Wrong

..

Happyflyer

It says if you flow to AA and washout of training then you can return to your previous status with seniority.

I wouldn't worry last time US Airways or AA furloughed they sent pilots with some seniority to their WO company's, no one wants to spend negotiating capital until there is a need.

The way they've treated WO with profit sharing, flow, and flight benifits, it would be completely out of character for AA pilots to hit the streets.

paulhood

Negative, that was the initial Flow through/Flow back agreement called Letter W/supplement 3, that was a 4 party agreement (AA, Eagle, APA and ALPA), that expired on 2010.

The new flow through in place with the wholly owns is an unilateral agreement, therefore the wholly own pilots do not receive an AA seniority number until the first day of class at AA, since APA is not part of the new flow through agreements, there is no flow back into the regionals.

Name User

Having flow up but not flow back kinda irked me. Personally I'd rather APA come up with 40-50 hour max line values or something, I would think that would be more beneficial, as we can stay qualified in the hopes flying comes back quickly (faster spool up, I know, wishful thinking) and greatly reduces training at both carriers.

That would greatly reduce the company payroll and give us time off as well, while preserving the actual pay rates.

senecacaptain

thank you for the clarification

chrisreedrules

Let’s see if I have this roughly correct...

Problem: Plummeting bookings lead to insane CASM.

Solutions in logical order:
1) Reduce flying
2) Park planes
3) Early retirements and buy outs
4) Shed aircraft if they stay parked too long
5) Shift flying to cheaper regionals
6) Furlough if pain looks to be extended and deep

The legacies appears to be on step 1 for now. I expect we’ll see steps 2 - 4 before it’s over. Hopefully it doesn’t go beyond that. I’m sure a deal could be worked out for “Jets for Jobs” or some sort of thing like what’s happened in the past if it comes down to it to avoid furloughs. In the near term I’m more concerned about AA’s solvency.

“Parker’s plan seems to be to betting on this not lasting long. If he's right, AAG gets to spin up with a headstart and win a decent market share from the competition. If he's wrong, AAG bleeds out and doesn't have anything to spin up with by the time the flying recovers.” ...I heard that today and it seems to be pretty accurate. Not sure I trust that strategy though when everyone else is buttoning down the hatches.

DoNoHarm

AA/Delta/United will be just fine. They are essential for the US economy and thus the government can not let them fail. These airlines are required for industry and government. Without these airlines, the economy and government of the US collapse. Much like the big banks and the auto industry.

I don't think that the same is true for the ULCC's, but the legacy airlines will be just fine.

chrisreedrules

I don’t disagree with you. Ultimately I think the companies will survive. I think the interim will be painful though.

Happyflyer

Your irked over not having flow back with seniority, or not having a reciprocal agreement where AA pilots get 25% of WO new hire positions.