Jumpseat Battle Brewing
05-12-2021, 07:09 AM
#451
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: Guppy
Posts: 761
Originally Posted by Cujo665
well, if we’re going to put contract business interests into the Jumpseat, both Alaska and Jetblue now carry AA passengers on codeshares, and AA doesn’t even have to have a FFD/CPA with them.
you offer 60 jets doing about 300 flights a day to under 100 AA destinations, many on routes shared with other contract, WO and mainline flights at other times of the day. You’re importance isn’t as big a deal since Parker started overlapping carriers in bases and routes.
AAG has over 960 hulls doing over 5,000 flights a day easy, on a global scale. You have a Jumpseat agreement because the APA sees some value in it. Reciprocal agreement simply means you agree to carry each others pilots... it has ZERO to do with the conditions, limitation, restrictions or any other contractual provision. Plenty have reciprocal agreements but are limited as D6L on the AAG side.
you offer 60 jets doing about 300 flights a day to under 100 AA destinations, many on routes shared with other contract, WO and mainline flights at other times of the day. You’re importance isn’t as big a deal since Parker started overlapping carriers in bases and routes.
AAG has over 960 hulls doing over 5,000 flights a day easy, on a global scale. You have a Jumpseat agreement because the APA sees some value in it. Reciprocal agreement simply means you agree to carry each others pilots... it has ZERO to do with the conditions, limitation, restrictions or any other contractual provision. Plenty have reciprocal agreements but are limited as D6L on the AAG side.
But you're still begging the question with your definition of reciprocity, and now you're moving the goalposts with the size discrepancy. Size has never had anything to do with it, and you know it. I know it's hard to stay on topic when your position is a losing one from a logical standpoint, but come on, man.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me a single jumpseat agreement that offers one carrier a better priority than the other. It's very obviously the exception to the rule (if it exists at all) which means it's entirely reasonable to infer that reciprocity has something to do with equal priority beyond a mutual will-carry agreement.
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05-12-2021, 08:40 AM
#452
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 527
Originally Posted by Cujo665
what is it about non owned is confusing you? You’re essentially a big charter company with three customers.
Thats OAL all day, everyday.
...
the only way that’s fair to all is
own metal
own company (parent, siblings, subsidiaries)
OAL’s
Thats OAL all day, everyday.
...
the only way that’s fair to all is
own metal
own company (parent, siblings, subsidiaries)
OAL’s
05-13-2021, 03:17 PM
#453
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by Longhornmaniac8
Then perhaps you should write the APA and push for that.
But you're still begging the question with your definition of reciprocity, and now you're moving the goalposts with the size discrepancy. Size has never had anything to do with it, and you know it. I know it's hard to stay on topic when your position is a losing one from a logical standpoint, but come on, man.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me a single jumpseat agreement that offers one carrier a better priority than the other. It's very obviously the exception to the rule (if it exists at all) which means it's entirely reasonable to infer that reciprocity has something to do with equal priority beyond a mutual will-carry agreement.
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But you're still begging the question with your definition of reciprocity, and now you're moving the goalposts with the size discrepancy. Size has never had anything to do with it, and you know it. I know it's hard to stay on topic when your position is a losing one from a logical standpoint, but come on, man.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me a single jumpseat agreement that offers one carrier a better priority than the other. It's very obviously the exception to the rule (if it exists at all) which means it's entirely reasonable to infer that reciprocity has something to do with equal priority beyond a mutual will-carry agreement.
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Reciprocal in JS agreements is between two pilot groups, that are equally binding upon each party.
the only one I know of still doing limited status is AA.... and it’s unidirectional. The D6L carriers on AA will all carry APA pilots unlimited. The APA does this when the carrier is too small, or doesn’t serve enough stations not already in the AA system. I know several of the ACMI carriers are limited on AA even though they don’t limit AA in return. Yes, it’s still a reciprocal JS agreement.
United switched to all unlimited some time ago, but was previously also doing limited status reciprocal agreements.
all irrelevant anyway
APA walked away, it’s over
Last edited by Cujo665; 05-13-2021 at 03:38 PM.
05-13-2021, 03:31 PM
#455
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Position: AOG
Posts: 741
The solution is simple. Fire YX, OO, and YV. Consolidate the WO's and staple them to the bottom of the APA list. This becomes the new hiring mechanism for AA and the jumpseat issues are resolved. The hired guns go away and AA has full product control.
05-13-2021, 03:42 PM
#456
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by greatmovieistar
Very relevant. And as you will see it is not over. APA is just one side of this.
you’ve obviously never seen or read a JS agreement. Nothing is going to happen without the APA, that’s fact.
05-13-2021, 04:04 PM
#457
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 420
Originally Posted by ClappedOut145
The solution is simple. Fire YX, OO, and YV. Consolidate the WO's and staple them to the bottom of the APA list. This becomes the new hiring mechanism for AA and the jumpseat issues are resolved. The hired guns go away and AA has full product control.
05-13-2021, 04:17 PM
#459
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: Guppy
Posts: 761
Originally Posted by Cujo665
it’s not my definition. It’s how it’s used in the JS agreements. They are not all the same. They are not all unlimited. There are many differences.
Reciprocal in JS agreements is between two pilot groups, that are equally binding upon each party.
all irrelevant
APA walked away, it’s over
Reciprocal in JS agreements is between two pilot groups, that are equally binding upon each party.
all irrelevant
APA walked away, it’s over
The APA walked away, that much is true. The irrelevance of it is certainly debatable, especially given the imminent priority change for AAG jumpseaters on Republic metal.
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05-13-2021, 07:50 PM
#460
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: B747 FO
Posts: 610
Originally Posted by ClappedOut145
The solution is simple. Fire YX, OO, and YV. Consolidate the WO's and staple them to the bottom of the APA list.
1. The 10000 unemployed pilots at the above airlines
2. The Airlines that are looking to hire some of them...
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