We did not “loosen up scope.” Our contract had 0 concessions

 

Thanks, that came from our internal forum

 

It won't be. Kirby can't afford to put himself in a disadvantaged position.

I do not care if United pays a little bit more per hour. Some people get so focused on the tree in front of them they fail to see the forest behind it.

 

I agree with you to some extent, but that's going to be a tough sell to get people to vote 'yes' on a TA that is offering lower pay than a direct competitor (if it comes to that).

 

Delta did not “loosen up” scope. Whomever is saying is full of it.

-Delta Global Scope Agreement allows for 1:1 Block Hour growth. Utilizing Block Hours is the key metric because Delta has traditionally had “small” widebody aircraft (like the 767-3ER) that could be replaced by a fewer number of large widebody aircraft (330/350) if the metrics were based off of ASMs etc.

-Improved Regional Jet Protections. For over two decades, the PWA allowed Delta an unlimited number of regional turboprop aircraft. Over time this unlimited allowance was restricted to turboprops with 37 or fewer seats that weighed 37,000 pounds or less. The new TA closes the loophole and requires that these, or any, aircraft with 50 or fewer seats count towards the 125 aircraft limit for 50-seat aircraft. Under the revised language in the TA, it no longer makes any distinction whether the aircraft is powered by a turbo jet or propeller (or any other means for that matter). So next-generation electric and VTOL aircraft count towards this limit.

-Improved Furlough Protections. With the new PWA, all pilots on the seniority list will receive 90 days’ notice before being furloughed, and cannot be furloughed if staffing at the time of notice or at time of furlough is less than the PBS Staffing Formula for any position. In addition, the staffing formula will be updated when any pilot is on furlough to increase the impact of premium flying on staffing, which will require pilots to be returned from furlough sooner than they otherwise would have been. Lastly, if any pilot on the seniority list as of date of signing is furloughed, all 76-seat RJs will convert to 70-seat RJs.

 

typical fear mongering from our Anti-ALPA yes voter, surrender monkey crowd

 

I can't guarantee you that you'll have more money in your pocket 5 years from now if this gets voted down.

I can guarantee that five years from now, you'll enjoy coming to work more than you do right now (or will if this thing passes), you'll probably have more vacation time, and you'll probably have more days off. If you want more money, you can always sell that time back to the company for more $.

Work rules and seniority are the two most important things in this industry.

Between the lack of QOL improvements and the givebacks on reserve, APA dropped the ball on both.

 

You’ll be negotiating, possibly voting on a new contract 5 years from now. This TA will pass.

The issue with American is your pilot group is understaffed by at least a few thousand pilots. Your management can’t afford to give up too much and create a scenario where they have even less available pilots to support the operation. Your management dropped the ball on stalling hiring and slow rolling the operation after Covid ended. United has hired an extra 2,000 pilots since everything opened back up.

Your contract is a copy and paste of the Delta TA with a few exceptions. I’d be upset it took this long for APA to copy and paste a contract.

 

Won’t you be voting yes to an industry lagging contract then?…and not moving the goal post? That’s a pretty tough pill to swallow and a rough precedence to dig out of.

 

Absolutely, I guarantee it won't happen. The main reason it will pass as of now is because the TA is solid and there isn't a belief management is willing to budge beyond what have negotiated. It's pretty clear we would have almost all of the leverage to renegotiate rates if UA comes out with something that exceeds ours.