Nicklaus? Funny. He applied the policy as it was written at the time. As a result, the policy was changed to use the 3 tenets we use now. Status and category, longevity(not the same as DOH), and career expectations

 

Yeah, people wanted to vote on the contract. Instead, they wait until months after the contract passes, then charge new hires dues without protection. It's a scam.

 

Career expectations? How is it that the time the merged Usairways/AMR/AWE that a pilot with a 6/89 DOH with AMR and America West was about 3,000 yet a usairways pilot was about 8,700? America West brought no wide bodies to the party. Usairways had more European destinations than any other us carrier. Yet-this list blocked me from a wide body Captain position for life-even with the covid buy outs they gave largely to the american natives. SO! Do you really want to talk about the “$$” in terms of seniority integration or union integrity? Oh ! And one last thought….how has ALPA changed its merger policy since screwing all of this up?

 

[QUOTE=Guppydriver95;3734906]Nicklaus? Funny. He applied the policy as it was written at the time. As a result, the policy was changed to use the 3 tenets we use now. Status and category, longevity(not the same as DOH), and career expectations[/QUOTE

As a result? What result should rob a pilot of their years of service? Are you advancing that, in truth, that a pilot who works for a smaller airline with no wide bodies, no international presence should be awarded greater seniority to longer tenured pilots with wide body flying? That’s the rules? No wonder our younger pilots are driving for change. What’s happened here is wrong. What’s happened to the TWA pilots is wrong. We all know it. Yet-we’re casting these wrong principals on our next generation. ALPA nor APA is the answer. A new union needs to be formed and moved forward. Clean slate. Shame on the rest.

 

[QUOTE=pilgram;3734915]Im not saying that at all. I’m saying it was changed due to how unjust the Nicalou award was. But, it wasn’t his fault. It was ours(collectively) due to the poor language at the time that caused the decision to be made. It’s much more fair and just now.

 

Not sure if you're being serious or just gaslighting that this is some scam or fleece job by APA. First, you always have union protections. Only difference between apprentice member and full member is that if you’re terminated, it’s more difficult for APA to get your job back as an apprentice. But up to that point, at any hearing or meeting with the company you have full protection, representation, and access to union resources.

Second, why don't you reach out to the person who wrote the resolution and ask him about his timing if you think he's in on the scam? The board approved this measure at the August meeting, not in time for the CBA vote this go around unfortunately. But they approved it the first time it was formally introduced and considered.

Regardless, with AA hiring 2,000 a year I don't see how anyone can argue that those new members having voting privileges for domicile elections, future CBA agreements, and all other union matters (yes even recalls which they didn't before!) is a bad thing. The resolution was written to mirror what SWAPA does.

 

What are ALPA dues?
Do they have retirement medical option if I retire early?
What will happen to our benefits?
What will happen to our DCA house?
Will the same people be elected to office at ALPA?
what happens to all the money in the APA bank account?
Is APA fixable and ALPA not necessary?

I don't have much time left but is ALPA the end all be all? I was in it and thought it was a bureaucratic mess. A real waste of money at the national level.

We should explore the idea and get the whole story. I'm not ready to dump APA until I have more info. I really like some of the Reps, the VP and the Compass webpage people.

 

The APA "Facts" published literally trumpeted how well they represented the LAA pilots in the TWA merger as a win. They literally cannot stop themselves from sounding elitest and tone deaf. The absolute mess that is our seniority list should stand as a shining example of why the APA is fundamentally corrupt.

ALPA will not fix everything, however the APA needs a gun to its head for any chance at real change. If they want to gamble on whether or not it's loaded, that's their call.

 

[QUOTE=pilgram;3734915]Each party (APA/East/West) had their opportunity to present their position to the arbitrators. There were public hearings in which you could watch the discussion of various positions/solutions to the list were presented, and argued, by the 3 parties. The biggest decider, as recent merger history has provided to include DL/NW, was 'career expectations' which basically came down to earnings potential. It hasn't been DOH for over 40 years. You disagree. The industry, arbitrators, court system, and unions disagree with you and have for over 40 years.

 

You are correct about the union protections. APA sent out an email about this a few months back in hopes of clarifying this, which I give them credit for.

That being said, you are totally burying your head in the sand if you don't think giving probationary pilots voting rights immediately after the contract is not calculated. APA had to lower the regular dues from 1.5% back to 1%. With 2,200 new hires this year, they saw an easy way to keep the extra cash flowing.