ACEssXfer

Haha. Would've been an easy answer anyway but you turtled instead. There were no negotiations on trip trading. APA told us "they didn't ask." Blatantly defying the will of the pilots.

APA sent purposefully vague surveys and then manipulated and hid behind the data. Or said things like "QoL is different for every pilot." THEY DIDN'T EVEN OPEN TRIP TRADING. That is mid bogglingly ridiculous given the current, at that time and continuing through now, state of trip trading.

APA failed during covid. ZTLs, vaccine, furloughs, billions in scope.
APA failed during section 6. Piggybacking off gains made by other airlines.
APA failed ALPA exploration. Voted to stop pursuing a merger after a UNANIMOUS recommendation to continue from the merger committee they stood up with hand picked APA apologists.

Zeeeerrrrrooooo.
Big boy pants.
"Role" up you sleeves.
We asked they said no.

Complete embarrassment.

ImSoSuss

I cAn't TaLk AbOuT uNiOn BuSiNeSsCool stories! The ole’ “I could tell ya but would have to kill ya” defense.

Fact 1: AA only made significant gains, in pay and compensation only, after ALPA made theirs with Delta. This is the second major contract in a row that this has happened.

Fact 2: There were ZERO significant QOL gains in the contract. There have been some minor tweaks but nothing that impacts a pilot's day to day QOL in a significant way. And by far the most significant QOL item for 70% of the pilot group, Trip Trading, was all but ignored.

So far you have presented zero facts except "I cAn't TaLk AbOuT uNiOn BuSiNeSs". I mean I don't blame you, after all there is not much to talk about except that the union got strong-armed by company management....... once again.

It's to late, nothing APA can do to change my mind on ALPA. No matter how many bull**** propaganda twisted facts communiques they put out.

rdneckpilot

I don’t have any problem discussing this with you or anyone else at work. I won’t here. Just my decision. You see it differently and that’s fine.

Im not an APA propagandist. I’m just saying ALPA isn’t fundamentally any better. Our union is what WE make it Suss. Regardless of the name on the dues check.

edit to add:

we vote in alpa we just trade one set of problems for another. The solution is not alpa.

ImSoSuss

One single reason why I will vote ALPA over APA, the structure is much better. Recall authority actually works at ALPA, it doesn't in APA. In the history of APA not a single BOD member was successfully recalled despite all the failures and corruption that has plagued that body over the years.

ALPA the problems are much easier to solve. So that blows away your argument.

rdneckpilot

Some of the issues I have with ALPA are not solvable.

We can change the structure of APA. Making it easier to recall a rep (which I vehemently agree with BTW) is achievable if we work on getting the right people on the BOD.

AllYourBaseAreB

Hopefully ALPA has better finance guys. Comically atrocious returns on our POD and PMA funds this year…

Red Forman

Let me guess, you can't discuss that here either?

cornerpocket

Such as? filler

rdneckpilot

It’s the conflict of interest from being affiliated with a national organization that has obligations outside of my pilot group. Especially the three wholly owned AA regionals.

Ive asked very direct questions about how ALPA national merger policy would play out with one of our regionals. I have not received direct answers.

The regionals are going to be changing significantly over the next couple years. With projected hiring at mainline I don’t see how they stay the size they are today. In the face of those unknowns I don’t want to be anywhere near alpa without more assurances on how that plays out.

Also having been ALPA prior to AA I don’t think they are worth the 30-80% premium. Our contract wouldn’t be significantly better in my opinion. Different sure… but better. Well that’s extremely subjective. Suss’s contribution regarding trip drops and trades is an excellent example. That was on my list of things I would like to have seen improved but I can wait until next round for drops and trades without any heartburn. It was obviously very high on his list. It could have easily been the other way around but regardless we have significant gains without concessions. Even if I don’t get what I want a contract with gains, no concessions and industry appropriate costs will always be a yes vote from me. I don’t see how there is much difference between the outcome here switching to ALPA. Perhaps their process of prioritizing negotiation goals are better but in the end I don’t think that’s enough of a reason to do business with ALPA.

Sliceback

You're implying that United ALPA set the gold standard during Covid and setting the bar during negotiations? Their position was embarassing. The lead union, with all the might of ALPA National behind it, and they come out swinging....and drop a turd.

LOL. And you're *****ing about APA?

United signed their deal....off the back of DL's contract and...(yes...I hear the drum roll...) APA's contract with AA. Just another ALPA carrier riding the coat tails of others and not signing an industry leading contract for the upmteenth time. I guess some would call that 'ALPA for the win"?