slowplay

Over the last decade can you point to any legacy airline that went through bankruptcy that didn't have a major labor reset done?

It's good that you're not personally worried. What could go wrong...with American Eagle up for sale/restructure and AMR losing money...

Jay5150

Not for nuthin', but that's a pretty stupid thing to say. Getting a better PWA at your airline is easier if the competition raises the bar, not lowers it. Those who enjoy seeing other guys contract get hammered are, IMHO, insecure to say the least.

If faced with an 1113c motion, it's a heck of a risk to take. Because if approved, a blank notebook is practically what management has

kcpunk

With losing "big" money and a pending bankruptcy looming, why would you stick around at AMR if you are over 60 and retirable or can take an early out. Am I wrong but if you retire before it is declared you are safe but once it is official, you are screwed out of everything you have been waiting for?

Scoop

Eagelfly,

You unknowingly hit the nail squarely on the head. Efficiencies. Think PBS, vacation, duty rigs and other cash items such as retirements, medical etc. AA's pay rates may be comparable to DALs but most other stuff is still based on the classic legacy style type of contracts - ie. good for Pilots.

Anyway the BK laws have since changed since DAL and UAL took the plunge so I am not sure management would be able to loot the employees as rapaciously as DAL and UAL management did - which will be good for the AMR guys.

Scoop

eaglefly

Dude.............get a clue.

I agree that major changes would occur, but I disagree that AA will be reset to the lowest of the low. Nope, not personally worried. If AA does go BK, you can look for a mass movement of senior pilots to the retirement bin and major hiring to make up for it. As others say, AA would then become the leanest of the lean and could expand internally to match the competition with the best balance sheet out there. As someone very junior with little invested, major hiring and expansion would actually probabaly be better for me personally, then not seeing that if BK is avoided. In that case growth will be much slower and tedious.

If I was senior it would be totally different and personally, I'd not like to see BK for many here, but I have no control over that so again........not worried about what I cannot control. It will or will not happen.

BTW, if AA did go BK, it would put TREMENDOUS new pressure on DAL and UAL and quite possibly could result in ANOTHER trip down the BK road in the future for one or both, just to re-compete depending on economic forces. One major difference in a possible AA BK compared to another BK trip for one or both of the above is that AA has no real valuable airline to merge with anymore and since being passed up in capacity and revenue generation/market share they have room and need to expand and would use internal growth as the expansion vehicle as opposed to still wallowing in pre BK mergers that might leave too much capacity or at the very least, certainly little room for explosive growth after another BK. I believe AA would need several thousand pilots over a fairly short period of time.

In the interim, feel free to take that open seat next to CVG in the AA BK glee club skybox and watch the show.

eaglefly

Is it in their best interest to carve the AA turkey to the point its taste is something everyone will agree is inferior ?

Remember, they still have to have a viably competitive product to compete and prosper. Nope, still not convinced they'd slash to the bone even if a judge let them.

eaglefly

Yes.....just a wild swing with the hammer.

Many of the items above would be affected, no doubt. But it's a double-edged sword. There's already a lot of anger over here about amangement continuously feeding at the bonus trough while to company underperforms. A final coup-de-gras against all the employee groups in BK, would only ensure AA's product is hopless dogs%$t for the forseeable future. It would seem any extra money saved taking maximum savagery against the employees in BK, would be more then lost operationally with employees who would never again be motivated by anything and whose self-worth by their employer hopelessly lost.

Sure, they could.........but it would be a stupid move. They'll need more cooperation then ever if AA goes through BK. I've heard that IF a BK scenario was contemplated, it would likely be a pre-packaged one and wouldn't that include agreements with labor prior to a final outcome ?

Admittedly not a BK expert, though.

tomgoodman

That depends on where your retirement fund is located. If it's already deposited in your name with a reliable outside institution, it's relatively safe. If it's still in company hands at bankruptcy, you may find that much of it consists of IOUs, for which you can get in line with the other creditors.

CVG767A

Eaglefly, I have no control over what you read into the term "gut". Your connotations of that word may differ from mine, and I implied nothing more than I stated.

I really hope you guys don't have to go through the 1113 hearing process, but if you do, you'll find that the union has very little leverage, and management holds all the cards (and they, in turn, are being controlled by the creditor's committee).

CVG767A

I reread my posts, and I'm still not seeing the glee that you say I'm displaying. Again, I hope AMR avoids bankruptcy. Aside from taking no pleasure in the misfortunes of others, it is in my personal best interests for you guys to avoid a trip to the bankruptcy court.