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Old 09-30-2012 | 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ForeverFO
Pilots, followed closely by mechanics, are the only groups that cannot be replaced in a few weeks. We could replace Horton and all the VP's with eager you MBA's at 1/50th the salary. They'd be ecstatic to have a good job and be able to move out of their parents' basement; AND, they'd probably do as good or better a job.

We DO have leverage. Unfortanately, it is emasculated via the RLA.

I need to examine RLA history a bit close. I suspect I'll find it was written and ramrodded by corporate elite, frustrated by evil unions seking to get a fair share of the $$ that results from their hard labor. The RLA is legalized pickpocketing. Management goes from $38,500.000, picks thousands of pockets of $10K, $20K, and now thier pockets bulge with $45,000,000, and thousands of hard working union people end up with zero, on the street.
Have you seen this site? The Failure of the Railway Labor Act | OPERATION ORANGE
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Old 10-01-2012 | 05:39 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by justjack
I have... and the notion tickles my endorphins and other happy-brain chemistry nodes, but so do notions like a national seniority list, an industry-wide strike or week off, and other pie in the sky schemes to improve our profession. In the end, the RLA iron fist crushes all. Re-writing or elimination of the RLA, allowing strikes under more circumstances, simply isn't going to happen.

A strike works when there is a legitimate economic leverage. AA pilots are still bitter about our 1997 strike, which lasted about 15 minutes and was shut down by the courts and Clinton's PEB, because of the "irreparable economic damage" done by the APA.

In contract, the earlier UPS strike cause MUCH more chaos and economic damage, yet was allowed to run its course. The only conclusion we could come to was that "our" judge$ and court$ were $omehow motivated to intervene.
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Old 10-01-2012 | 06:47 AM
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Operation Orange is on the right track unfortunately the very long dissertations on the site make it difficult to keep up for many who just want the facts and get on with their day. The other problem that OO faces is the minimal comprehension pilots have of their history and the U.S. Constitution. In a few words, a wildcat strike to protest our grievances with the federal government, RLA, NMB, Courts, etc., is not only legal but has already been done successfully by pilots 40 years ago. Most pilots can't even tell you when the RLA was written much less when it was last amended. Pilots refuse to read and learn from their history instead spend their time reading books about management, "Hard Landings", "Nuts", etc. and can tell you about the SEC filings and current airplane orders but cannot tell you when ALPA was formed and how little it has changed since its creation. So OO faces a very steep uphill battle trying to educate as well as motivate a bunch that is woefully under-educated when it comes to their own profession.
The idea of a national seniority list is not an objective of any well intentioned movement to consolidate pilot representation. A national union, pilots currently do not have unions they have "associations", does not require or involve the creation of an NSL. Pilots desiring an NSL are like a dog chasing a car. If the dog ever caught a car he would not what to do with it and that is exactly what it would be like if magically an NSL was created today. What would you do with it? The pilot profession does need a revolution to change the way pilots are represented. Pilots were warned in 1990 by then outgoing ALPA President Hank Duffy spoke to ALPA’s national convention. He said, “I believe unequivocally that anything less than a strong centralized national union in today’s environment is suicide for the profession and eventually for every pilot group.” We are witnessing that suicide.
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Old 10-01-2012 | 12:47 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by ForeverFO
I have... and the notion tickles my endorphins and other happy-brain chemistry nodes, but so do notions like a national seniority list, an industry-wide strike or week off, and other pie in the sky schemes to improve our profession. In the end, the RLA iron fist crushes all. Re-writing or elimination of the RLA, allowing strikes under more circumstances, simply isn't going to happen.

A strike works when there is a legitimate economic leverage. AA pilots are still bitter about our 1997 strike, which lasted about 15 minutes and was shut down by the courts and Clinton's PEB, because of the "irreparable economic damage" done by the APA.

In contract, the earlier UPS strike cause MUCH more chaos and economic damage, yet was allowed to run its course. The only conclusion we could come to was that "our" judge$ and court$ were $omehow motivated to intervene.
It should be noted that the 97 UPS strike was a NLRB governed strike and NOT a RLA strike. No permission was required to strike and the standards for intervention by the government are tougher . Don't attempt to compare the two . The pilots at UPS honored the picket and did not fly, this was and is negotiated in the IPA/UPS contract.
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Old 10-01-2012 | 05:21 PM
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I like the idea of a strong national pilots union. I have paid thousands of dollars in dues to ALPA. The problem with unions and politicians is they forget who they represent. There are a lot of large salaries paid to union reps. with very little return for our investment. The American pilots are fighting for the profession, the outcome is still in question.
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Old 10-02-2012 | 07:36 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by CaptainBigWood
I like the idea of a strong national pilots union. I have paid thousands of dollars in dues to ALPA. The problem with unions and politicians is they forget who they represent. There are a lot of large salaries paid to union reps. with very little return for our investment. The American pilots are fighting for the profession, the outcome is still in question.
+1.
One National Union, One Contract, One SL, One pay scale..
ALL amendable on the same date!! 65,000 pilot strong picket line cannot be IGNORED!!
Its time to make the change, or suffer the consequence!!
If the Delta boys think they are untouchable, get back to me in about 5 yrs..
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Old 10-02-2012 | 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by LittleBoyBlew
+1.
One National Union, One Contract, One SL, One pay scale..
ALL amendable on the same date!! 65,000 pilot strong picket line cannot be IGNORED!!
Its time to make the change, or suffer the consequence!!
If the Delta boys think they are untouchable, get back to me in about 5 yrs..
A national union is illegal under the RLA as well as one contract. Please read the RLA.
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Old 10-02-2012 | 08:06 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
A national union is illegal under the RLA as well as one contract. Please read the RLA.
Owning Slaves and segregation were also "legal" at one time.... The LAW can be changed!! Time to overhaul the RLA!!
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Old 10-02-2012 | 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by LittleBoyBlew
Owning Slaves and segregation were also "legal" at one time.... The LAW can be changed!! Time to overhaul the RLA!!
Attempts have been made. The last was just two years ago. A bill was introduced to move FedEx out from under the RLA. It was crushed by Boeing and FedEx. You can research how they did I it. Most airlines have RLA poison pills like FedEx.
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Old 10-02-2012 | 11:43 AM
  #160  
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FWIW, the NLRA is no panacea either.

Nu
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