Clear Right

Please...really? You want sympathy from the general public. The general public thinks you work 15 days a month for more than a 6 figure salary.

Pensioned employees...they don't exist anymore. Teachers, firemen, and police won't get the sympathy of the general public either. Have you seen a firemans pension?? Do you think it is sustainable with municipalities going bankrupt left and right. Pensions are a thing of the past, unsustainable in any financial situation, private industry or municiple government.

I know it sucks, but it is the financial reality of people living too long. No company or government can afford to sustain a pension for people that live 30, 40, and in some cases 50 years after retirement.

In my opinion you need to negotiate the highest 401k match and Profit Sharing possible in your next contract...lose the pension. Nobody can ever take that money away from you or use it as leverage against you once it is deposited in your personal retirement account. Pensions are a handicap that management will use to leverage the senior pilots against the junior pilots. Why give management that power.

All of that being said about pensions, I do believe we are in a struggle between the income gap. That is where you need to spend the energy educating the general public.

JetFlyer06

Well said.

eaglefly

Obviously, you're clueless. The pension issue isn't even on the table at AA as far as saving it. The amount of the 401(k) IS though. Both funds are gone and that's known by all and I think his reference to pensions wasn't about pensions per se, but about the greater assault on fair compensation for various professions, especially that of airline pilots. You talk about what "others" should do about educating the general public, but do nothing yourself. That's ok as I think your retirement package is perfectly appropriate considering the airline you work for.

Perhaps that will improve though once your merger is announced ?

Of course, if it does it will be because of others educating the public and not you.

afterburn81

Got a good laugh the other day when center said to an American flight "I noticed you guys are declining short cuts a lot lately, is there a reason for that?" They came back with "hmmm dunno".

Clear Right

Whatever Eagle...My comments were in regard to the Pensioned employees the post made reference to. I thought that was clear. I made no reference to AA or your fight. Although you are right this is an AMR thread, so my fault.

But I still wish you the best of luck, despite your comments towards me...now I remember why I stopped posting on this forum. I'll go back to the sidelines and cheer you on.

eaglefly

You made no reference to AA or AA pilots fight ?

In that case, my apologies. Perhaps you can clear up my confusion then when you stated, "teachers, fireman and police won't get the sympathy of the general public anymore EITHER".

One could assume you referring to pilots and in particular the pilots of a certain airline, this being an airline pilots forum and an AA bankruptcy thread, no ?

I became even more confused when you then stated, "in my opinion, you need to negotiate the highest 401(k) match and profit sharing possible in you next contract......lose the pension".

Just what other carriers pilots are currently in the exact situation of losing their pensions and having a follow on plan not yet defined ?

Very confused, eaglefly is.

LittleBoyBlew

Getting a$$ raped by management, who used the BK courts to decimate our CBA... Were was the rest of the industry then?? Oh I remember now, hoping that US Air would fold so THEY could benefit!!
The problem with our society is that differences in opinion carry more weight than establishing common ground. Our masters know this, and they use it against us.

tsquare

Don't get me wrong. I think it would be wonderful for all pilot groups to stand up and say 'enough'. The problem is that we all have differing goals and objectives, and unfortunately there are some that are on top and some on the bottom at any given time. It will always be hard to get those on top to sacrifice themselves for "the Cause". How do you propose making that happen? While sympathetic to the AMR pilots' cause, I'm not gonna jump off a cliff to bolster their argument... sorry.. I just won't, and while few will admit this, many feel exactly the same way. I'd support you financially if you were part of my union.. but you chose the independent route. Maybe there will be some reconciliation between the AMR pilots and ALPA.. but time will tell. Maybe that safety in numbers thing...?

To compare this to other labor is a bit of a stretch though. Most private labor groups have already been through this and private corporate labor unionism is at a very low percentage these days. The problem here is public labor unions. Sorry, but I hope the Chicago teachers get their asses handed to them. Our children in this country are getting a pathetic education, and it is a direct result of these groups. America is becoming stupid, and we all know the reason. As a taxpayer, I am not getting my money's worth there.

Rather B Fishin

T doesn't speak for the majority of DAL folks. As you can see by his "expertise" he should be a school superindendant or even head of the department of Education, he has ALL the answers....

Spoken like a true unionist. Hey T I think the academy is lookin for a new Commandant....

jabone

As a consumer what should I know?

Whatever is going on has impacted my travel. On the outbound I got within two hours of my destination and my return has been canceled.

I prefer to fly when the cockpit is full of happy people.

I don't have a 60 hour a month job nor do I have a great 401k matching program (pension- dont even know what that means. )

So help the unwashed understand why we should care.