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Old 09-16-2012, 02:33 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by justjack
by judging what happened when the USAirways pilots lost "enthusiasm"
You are kidding right? Comparing a blatant job action by a scab union and this is apples and oranges.
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Old 09-16-2012, 02:54 PM
  #22  
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American Airlines has had the second most cancelled flights of any airline in the world for the last 3 days, including today. We are already #3 for tomorrow. Here's the link:

FlightAware
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Old 09-16-2012, 03:16 PM
  #23  
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#2 now, behind Korean, who is apparently dealing with a Typhoon at their hub today.

I don't see how a judge can "punish" the pilots any more than he already has. They don't have a contract any more, and work to FAR's. If he levies fines against the APA, it wouldn't surprise me to see them dissolve the union and just go free agent until things blow over. It's not like they can send the Sheriff over to every pilots house and lead them to work in handcuffs.

Whatever the cause, poor operational performance will force the hand of the creditors. What they decide to do remains to be seen, but I'd think a merger would provide more value than a fire sale.
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Old 09-16-2012, 04:16 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by cactiboss
You are kidding right? Comparing a blatant job action by a scab union and this is apples and oranges.
Can you PLEASE put your aside utter contempt for USairways pilots for ONE thread? Must you co-opt EVERY post ? Can we EVER have a discussion about labor unions without your vitriolic rants towards the East? I brought up the USAirways incident because I believe that the courts could rule in the same manner. If you disagree, do so like an adult and list the LEGAL aspects that are different- without your usual derogatory , childish, inappropriate, inaccurate, name calling. Do you ever get sick of writing the same old stuff? Don't you realize that at some point you start to get diminishing returns?
The success of the American pilots requires careful consideration of successes/failures of the past.
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Old 09-16-2012, 04:43 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by ForeverFO
I've been averaging maybe 66 hours a month for over a decade. In 20 years I have not taken a single make-up trip. Not one. I fly my line, usually less than my line.

But yeah there are make-up guys. I cannot condemn them all, because each and every one has a different motivation. I know one guy whose wife is terminal AND he's taking care of his aging (and incoherent/alzheimer) mother. The guy needs the $$. Many examples of life situations where there is little other option.

But those that are still doing it because they need the bux for their new boat payment - pi$$ off to you.

One of the problems we'll face is the inevitable, shrill "STATUS QUO! STATUS QUO!" that will come from management in federal court.
To which the APA guys should correctly point out: "There is no status Quo" We have never been in this situation before and so by definition there can be no status quo.

Good luck APA!

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Last edited by johnso29; 09-17-2012 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:10 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by justjack
Can you PLEASE put your aside utter contempt for USairways pilots for ONE thread? Must you co-opt EVERY post ? Can we EVER have a discussion about labor unions without your vitriolic rants towards the East? I brought up the USAirways incident because I believe that the courts could rule in the same manner. If you disagree, do so like an adult and list the LEGAL aspects that are different- without your usual derogatory , childish, inappropriate, inaccurate, name calling. Do you ever get sick of writing the same old stuff? Don't you realize that at some point you start to get diminishing returns?
The success of the American pilots requires careful consideration of successes/failures of the past.
No, yes, no. The usairways court situation has nothing to do with the American situation legally. For one the east had a union leadership that was actively promoting a job action, something you won't see at amr, and on top of that the amr pilot's don't have a "control" group like the west provided to usairways management. Those 2 facts alone make this a completely different legal landscape. I am sure the amr pilots have learned some lessons from the past and will handle this in a much smarter way.
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by justjack
Can you PLEASE put your aside utter contempt for USairways pilots for ONE thread? Must you co-opt EVERY post ? Can we EVER have a discussion about labor unions without your vitriolic rants towards the East? I brought up the USAirways incident because I believe that the courts could rule in the same manner. If you disagree, do so like an adult and list the LEGAL aspects that are different- without your usual derogatory , childish, inappropriate, inaccurate, name calling. Do you ever get sick of writing the same old stuff? Don't you realize that at some point you start to get diminishing returns?
The success of the American pilots requires careful consideration of successes/failures of the past.
USAPA made no secret of the fact they were staging a job action. Their communications and other actions left no doubt what was going on and gave the company all the ammunition they needed to get a court injunction. How dumb were the I am Onboard yellow lanyards USAPA wanted every pilot wearing? Simply beyond stupid on the unions part.
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:53 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
USAPA made no secret of the fact they were staging a job action. Their communications and other actions left no doubt what was going on and gave the company all the ammunition they needed to get a court injunction. How dumb were the I am Onboard yellow lanyards USAPA wanted every pilot wearing? Simply beyond stupid on the unions part.
Does that surprise you one bit with USAPA? That is the biggest bunch of nincompoops out there.
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:56 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by aa73
My understanding is that NWA tried that and their pilots started "BOB" (Block Or Better) and management stopped it shortly thereafter.
Your understanding of BOB is correct!
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:14 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Cycle Pilot
Your understanding of BOB is correct!

I Liked Bob at FNWA, He got a lot done.

Everyone knows a Bob !
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