Views on the pilot slowdown from FF customer
10-02-2012, 05:22 PM
#61
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 16
The technology is there to do more than everything you mention and is being used although not to the extent in commercial aircraft right now that it will soon be. Anything tougher than landing on an aircraft carrier at night rocking like crazy? Might not be your world, but its being done right now that can easily transfer to any modern jet. Its no longer automation or fuzzy logic, its real time pick out a landing site and autoland w/o any published approach times 1,000. I agree with you and I also should have been more specific in that its not a tomorrow it starts situation, but it'd scare you how close we are and what is happening with airspace requirements and ADS-B that make it amazingly simple. Not to mention you know how management would love to go to 1 pilot. Can't see it happening on heavies or larger a/c. Ground control movements are even simpler and as you know you're leaving your xpdr on at many airports, automation is coming there quickly. There are even controllerless towers in other countries. How far will technology go? Had autoland in the 70's but it was fought against. Anyone will fight against being replaced by a computer and in the early stages are 100% correct, look at the Airbus, but with time....its here now, just when will it be put in place.
10-02-2012, 05:25 PM
#62
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Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
Originally Posted by bcrosier
You make a good point here. Triple redundant systems would never fail! There would never be a need to save a DC-10 that lost all three of it's hydraulic systems, because it's inconceivable that such an event could ever occur. Engineering smarts and automation is clearly the way to go - with modern technology there will clearly never be a need for superior problem solving skills and airmanship.
{sarcasm off}
Elvis - Good (more recent) example with AF447.
{sarcasm off}
Elvis - Good (more recent) example with AF447.
I think Al Haynes of United 232 is the epitome of airmanship - great example.
10-02-2012, 05:30 PM
#63
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Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Elvis90
Thanks - I think a lot of folks with under 25 posts who present themselves as knowledgable are simply imposters with alternative agendas of devaluing the pilot profession.
10-02-2012, 05:40 PM
#64
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
Originally Posted by Turbine26
Cheap shot, but maybe if you worked in the real life systems, saw them in action and spent a career in aviation on numerous levels and got Degree's in what you talk about, you wouldn't find it necessary to make comments like yours. Don't flatter yourself, talk facts, if you can.
10-02-2012, 05:40 PM
#65
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
[QUOTE=Turbine26;1270297]
I have two masters and 12 years of USAF T&E. I agree with Elvis. There is no substitute for experience.
You advocate paying less and that lower pay fairly values the job. I say keep it...The job.
Originally Posted by Elvis90
Thanks - I think a lot of folks with under 25 posts who present themselves as knowledgable are simply imposters with alternative agendas of devaluing the pilot profession.
Cheap shot, but maybe if you worked in the real life systems, saw them in action and spent a career in aviation on numerous levels and got Degree's in what you talk about, you wouldn't find it necessary to make comments like yours. Don't flatter yourself, talk facts, if you can.
Cheap shot, but maybe if you worked in the real life systems, saw them in action and spent a career in aviation on numerous levels and got Degree's in what you talk about, you wouldn't find it necessary to make comments like yours. Don't flatter yourself, talk facts, if you can.
You advocate paying less and that lower pay fairly values the job. I say keep it...The job.
10-02-2012, 05:41 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
Originally Posted by block30
You don't like Pearl Jam? 
. I love Perl Jam. Not sure you know that lyric includes the line "I changed by not changing at all". Sadly I don't think 'not changing' is an option for the airline industry.
Originally Posted by block30
Hey-I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt, but I think that the American threads (including Eagle) have had mysterious new posters come on the threads trying to woo the pilots in the direction of management.
If you're legit, my sincere apologies. Probably the realm of the mods to determine.
If you're legit, my sincere apologies. Probably the realm of the mods to determine.
)....Like I said - an avid consumer of AA and US (when it cannot be avoided) services with a strong opinion. That's all.
You want to get angry? Call our management or the FAA... We're just doing exactly what we are supposed to. Now then, ask yourself why other airlines aren't delayed... I'll guarantee you it's because they are holding off writing things up until the last flight if the day.
10-02-2012, 06:36 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: M88B
Posts: 1,179
[QUOTE=Turbine26;1270297]
I have two masters and 12 years of USAF T&E. I agree with Elvis. There is no substitute for experience.
You advocate paying less and that lower pay fairly values the job. I say keep it...The job.
Wow he got quiet 
Delta does hire some very high qualified candidates. It makes me feel like my 2 undergrad degrees are worthless
Anyone who has flown the magic knows that just like your home computer IT WILL crash eventually. Do you want 300 ppl up there trying to figure out how to reboot their computer after all those automated systems failed.
If it is getting so mush easier how come the FAA just upped the requirement to fly one of those cool planes by 500%. Now the FO has to have an ATP as well. Guess those puppy mill type flight schools are going to have a much harder time cranking out 1500 hour pilots.
Now back to AA who I can't help but admire for standing up in something they believe in. Much easier from the side lines to cast stones when its not your career hanging in the balance.
Originally Posted by Elvis90
Thanks - I think a lot of folks with under 25 posts who present themselves as knowledgable are simply imposters with alternative agendas of devaluing the pilot profession.
Cheap shot, but maybe if you worked in the real life systems, saw them in action and spent a career in aviation on numerous levels and got Degree's in what you talk about, you wouldn't find it necessary to make comments like yours. Don't flatter yourself, talk facts, if you can.
Cheap shot, but maybe if you worked in the real life systems, saw them in action and spent a career in aviation on numerous levels and got Degree's in what you talk about, you wouldn't find it necessary to make comments like yours. Don't flatter yourself, talk facts, if you can.
Originally Posted by Elvis90
I've got a bachelor's degree in Aeronautical Engineering and a master's degree in Mechanical Engineering. What are your degrees in? Are you a pilot, and who do you work for? I've spent 24 years in the Air Force, you can thank me for my service later.
Originally Posted by scambo1
I have two masters and 12 years of USAF T&E. I agree with Elvis. There is no substitute for experience.
You advocate paying less and that lower pay fairly values the job. I say keep it...The job.
Delta does hire some very high qualified candidates. It makes me feel like my 2 undergrad degrees are worthless
Anyone who has flown the magic knows that just like your home computer IT WILL crash eventually. Do you want 300 ppl up there trying to figure out how to reboot their computer after all those automated systems failed.
If it is getting so mush easier how come the FAA just upped the requirement to fly one of those cool planes by 500%. Now the FO has to have an ATP as well. Guess those puppy mill type flight schools are going to have a much harder time cranking out 1500 hour pilots.
Now back to AA who I can't help but admire for standing up in something they believe in. Much easier from the side lines to cast stones when its not your career hanging in the balance.
10-02-2012, 06:41 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
[QUOTE=Turbine26;1270297]
Anyone who believes that there will be remote-controlled or even single pilot airliners in the next 30 years has no idea of the complexity of the problems that pilots and controllers solve every day. They also are ignoring the tremendous expense of the infrastructure upgrades and aircraft replacement required. In the end, there is no economic imperative to do it. Our system as it is is already incredibly safe. Experienced pilots and controllers making decent living wages are much cheaper than all the money that would need to be spent to replace us with remote control airplanes. Who wants to be the first to take a ride in the back of a pilot-less airliner?
Originally Posted by Elvis90
Thanks - I think a lot of folks with under 25 posts who present themselves as knowledgable are simply imposters with alternative agendas of devaluing the pilot profession.
Cheap shot, but maybe if you worked in the real life systems, saw them in action and spent a career in aviation on numerous levels and got Degree's in what you talk about, you wouldn't find it necessary to make comments like yours. Don't flatter yourself, talk facts, if you can.
Cheap shot, but maybe if you worked in the real life systems, saw them in action and spent a career in aviation on numerous levels and got Degree's in what you talk about, you wouldn't find it necessary to make comments like yours. Don't flatter yourself, talk facts, if you can.
10-02-2012, 10:26 PM
#70
Where's my Mai Tai?
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: fins to the left, fins to the right
Posts: 1,734
The OP does have a point even if he did go about it the wrong way.
Lets face it. The AA pilots are doing things that every pilot should do everyday but doesn't. I used to go out of my way to fly on AA. Now, I go out of my way to avoid them. I'm sure doing what they are doing makes them feel good in the short term. BTDT. But what does it accomplish.
AA pilots. If you drive away your loyal customers and succeed in burning the place down, where does it leave you in a seniority driven business. If the place doesn't burn down, will they return.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be doing what you are, but there will probably be lasting effects.
Prior DFS, BFS, JCS, DFS, LCS, DFE. I'm sure Eaglefly will decode for you non AMR types if you need it.
Lets face it. The AA pilots are doing things that every pilot should do everyday but doesn't. I used to go out of my way to fly on AA. Now, I go out of my way to avoid them. I'm sure doing what they are doing makes them feel good in the short term. BTDT. But what does it accomplish.
AA pilots. If you drive away your loyal customers and succeed in burning the place down, where does it leave you in a seniority driven business. If the place doesn't burn down, will they return.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be doing what you are, but there will probably be lasting effects.
Prior DFS, BFS, JCS, DFS, LCS, DFE. I'm sure Eaglefly will decode for you non AMR types if you need it.
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