Originally Posted by flybywire44

Your post is somewhat generic. You use the term furloughs, prognosticate with distinction between voluntary furloughs and mandatory furloughs.

Yes, voluntary furloughs will fair will with intact LOS, but what about the mandatory furloughed who never completed probation?

Originally Posted by crzipilot

I guess we can't believe a CAL guy on how their SLI turned out. Bossi says it ain't so.

Now if you look at the SLI, somewhere around 10400 all the UAL guys are listed as FRL. The CAL guys are listed as ACTIVE. Now before that there are a large amount of UAL guys that are active and frl. So not sure if those definately took vol. Frl or if maybe they are the ones that took the recall over to CAL.

Anyways.....yes there is a disparity between hire dates. UAL guys listed as FRL were hired in late '99 and on. They are mixed in with CAL guys that were hired in the beginning of '07 BUT THE CAL GUYS WERE ACTIVE.

Now granted it's the bottom of the list....but they were not STAPLED. So you can't say they followed ratioing ala the NIC.

In fact I would bet if the SLI same out similar to UAL we wouldn't be here........

Originally Posted by eaglefly

AA has some relatively senior pilots who have bypassed recall and are still out on "furlough". Thus they are furloughees. Once arbitration occurs (and you know it will), AA will present its list and it will be merged with whatever U list is presented. As such, that would mean some AA pilots not on property due to furlough will be senior to currently working U pilots unless arbitrators cherry pick AA furloughees out of their seniority and reinsert them, which isn't likely to happen. That would essentially be reordering the presented AA list before integration.

Its been said repeatedly that every merger and SLI has different issues and an AA/U merge/SLI is no exception. The wild card is the U list and whatever is finally presented be it Nic, something else or separate, but I think it a certainty that the AA list will not be "reordered" for any reason and that means some AA furloughees will be senior to working U pilots. The merger isn't likely to be consummated until the end of this year or even very early next year and it will likely be another 12-18 months after that before arbitration is imminent and the official lists from both sides are presented. At that point there will be many pilots not yet hired as part of those lists and senior (and not so senior) AA pilots still not back on property.

Expect the AA list to maintain relative seniority after any SLI with U and furloughed pilots senior to working pilots.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

What about them ?

They'd have to pick the most senior of them at the time they submit the list and then decide where to put them relative to U pilots. Problem is, is there will be AA pilots junior to them flying, like pilots not even hired at AA (or U) yet. That again brings the situation of effectively reordering the AA list in some way and I don't see that happening.

AA furloughees should maintain relative seniority regardless of return status at time of list submission.

Originally Posted by flybywire44

Q. "What about them?"

A. I cannot read your second to last post and cannot determine if you're referring to voluntary furloughed or mandatory furloughed pilots.

===
So, a few thoughts:

1) How did United calculate LOS? Was it LOS on property? Or another name for DOH?

2) Voluntary furloughs (who were never mandatorily furloughed) may end up keeping their position on the ISL. There may also be a remote possibility of some loss of seniority for these pilots, but I doubt they'd lose much of anything unless they chose to never recall. I say remote chance because the net effect of voluntary furloughs is a large advantage for the AA pilot group's seniority placement as a whole:
3) Furloughed pilots recalled may receive a LOS credit for time actually spent on property and judging by United's SLI there may also a credit (or debit) for relative position and status. —Does this fit most other people's expectations?

4) Any pilots hired after February 14, 2013 have ”Constructive Notice‚ that his or her career expectations are reasonably considered to be those of someone hired by the new carrier."

5) I don't know how being recalled before or after February 14, 2013 would affect any AA or Airways pilots.

Originally Posted by cactiboss

Here is CAL take on the SLI, you beasties play close attention where they talk about "overturning" the list.

The New US Airways Pilot Forum

Originally Posted by cactiboss

Here is CAL take on the SLI, you beasties play close attention where they talk about "overturning" the list.

The New US Airways Pilot Forum

Originally Posted by eaglefly

I can't read your post above as I am unsure what your references to "voluntary" and "mandatory" mean in regards to present AA furloughees. Suffice it to say, all pilots presently on furlough at AA. have had the opportunity to return and thus all are on voluntary furlough with perhaps another 2 3/4 years until they must return, provided their is a requirement for pilots. I doubt arbitration will penalize them for exercising their contractually allowed choice as to do so would tip over the AA seniority list apple cart making any SLI that much more complicated. In fact, if that was a risk, it would have to be communicated to the affected pilots who might then choose to flood their way back causing even more problems for AA who may not be able to accommodate such a fiasco.

Try not to hinge what happened at UAL or any other merger/SLI to what may happen here. There are as many situation specific issues here as their are similarities with other merger/SLI's. Besides, the jackwagons in Herndon have no influence in this situation (thank god) and the sun neither rises not sets in their corruption and negligence filled offices when it comes to SLI's.

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

They wont have access

WD at AWA