10 months to 190 Capt
01-28-2014, 03:45 PM
#241
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,293
Originally Posted by Puros
Very good point- there really will no longer be a dispute once the APA takes over as a union. At least, that's how I see it. Did the company and Alpa actually approve of the Nicolau list?
Did you actually read the MOU, or did you just go along with the AOL scheme to try and use if for purposes other than it was designed for? You know, claiming that it completed the TA.
You aren't giving more of your hard earned money to AOL, are you?
Yes, the company did approve the Nic. Problem for you is that the TA prevented it's use, and then the MOU modified the TA. READ THE MOU AND JUDGE SILVER'S RULING MAN!
01-28-2014, 04:41 PM
#244
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by R57 relay
By the time the APA takes over the contract we all agreed to says we will be done with negotiations and will have turned things over to an arbitration panel.
Did you actually read the MOU, or did you just go along with the AOL scheme to try and use if for purposes other than it was designed for? You know, claiming that it completed the TA.
You aren't giving more of your hard earned money to AOL, are you?
Yes, the company did approve the Nic. Problem for you is that the TA prevented it's use, and then the MOU modified the TA. READ THE MOU AND JUDGE SILVER'S RULING MAN!
Did you actually read the MOU, or did you just go along with the AOL scheme to try and use if for purposes other than it was designed for? You know, claiming that it completed the TA.
You aren't giving more of your hard earned money to AOL, are you?
Yes, the company did approve the Nic. Problem for you is that the TA prevented it's use, and then the MOU modified the TA. READ THE MOU AND JUDGE SILVER'S RULING MAN!
Did the MOU kill the Nic? Can you post the verbiage?
01-28-2014, 04:47 PM
#245
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,293
Originally Posted by Puros
I'm not a member of west or the AIL. Just a bystander with an objective view. Sorry to have upset you so much. Looks like you are all-in with your opinions though.
Did the MOU kill the Nic? Can you post the verbiage?
Did the MOU kill the Nic? Can you post the verbiage?
Really?! A bystander that puts this much effort into something that doesn't affect you? Them what's wrong with you?
Yes, I can show you.
01-28-2014, 04:51 PM
#246
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,293
Originally Posted by flybywire44
East pilots, let it go. You got your ruling. Let the West pilots have their opinions.
Just let this play out. Let the subjects die.
Just let this play out. Let the subjects die.
01-28-2014, 05:01 PM
#247
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 182
Originally Posted by Puros
I'm not a member of west or the AIL. Just a bystander with an objective view. Sorry to have upset you so much. Looks like you are all-in with your opinions though.
Did the MOU kill the Nic? Can you post the verbiage?
Did the MOU kill the Nic? Can you post the verbiage?
US Airways agrees that it will comply with the East and West CBAs and the Transition Agreement until the Effective Date. (Dec 9th 2013)
Paragraph 4 states:
Once the MTA has been fully implemented, it shall fully displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots and any
status quo arising thereunder.
In Sept 2008 you stated:
The intent of the transition agreement is to facilitate the merger between two pilot groups. In it details about fleet counts, furlough protection, CBA voting and seniority integration among others are spelled out in detail. The lawsuit brought about by the west will allow the transition agreement between AWA and AAA to be presented before a federal judge in a court of law. This will preserve the integrity of the agreement by all three parties and allow for a definitive answer as to whether USAPA can actually make arbitrary changes to it without consulting anyone. USAPA's biggest obstacle will be to argue that "final and binding" in the agreement THEY agreed to no longer applies. I predict these two legal claims will be short lived law suites because it is very black and white. The transition agreement is very specific how the seniority integration is to be conducted, including the finality of the arbitrator's ruling, and also how furloughs will take place. I am looking forward to how the USAPA lawyers are going to argue that the transition agreement which their client signed and agreed to no longer applies. A ruling in favor of the west will repudiate basically every tenet USAPA was created on. In Sept 2008 you stated:
The New American Airlines Merger Transition Agreement (MTA) was voted in by the pilot group (98% in PHX). It "nullifies" the previous Collective Bargaining agreements of US Airways East and West and the previous Transition Agreement where the Nicolau lived.
Paragraph 10h states:
h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10.
Paragraph 11a states:
Paragraph 11a states:
11. a. During the term of the MTA, US Airways shall not furlough any pilots who have established and maintain seniority on the US Airways mainline system as of the Effective Date. USAPA will
provide, by name, East Pilot “X” and West Pilot “Y” who will be the most junior US Airways pilots afforded this furlough protection.
It's pretty clear that 2 lists from the US Airways side will be presented to combine into the AA list, making one list. Hope that helps clear it up for you.
It's pretty clear that 2 lists from the US Airways side will be presented to combine into the AA list, making one list. Hope that helps clear it up for you.
01-28-2014, 06:07 PM
#249
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,293
Originally Posted by Eastie Pilot
Paragraph 15 stated:
US Airways agrees that it will comply with the East and West CBAs and the Transition Agreement until the Effective Date. (Dec 9th 2013)
Paragraph 4 states:
The New American Airlines Merger Transition Agreement (MTA) was voted in by the pilot group (98% in PHX). It "nullifies" the previous Collective Bargaining agreements of US Airways East and West and the previous Transition Agreement where the Nicolau lived.
Paragraph 10h states:
US Airways agrees that it will comply with the East and West CBAs and the Transition Agreement until the Effective Date. (Dec 9th 2013)
Paragraph 4 states:
Once the MTA has been fully implemented, it shall fully displace and render a nullity any prior collective bargaining agreements applicable to US Airways pilots and any
status quo arising thereunder.
In Sept 2008 you stated:
The intent of the transition agreement is to facilitate the merger between two pilot groups. In it details about fleet counts, furlough protection, CBA voting and seniority integration among others are spelled out in detail. The lawsuit brought about by the west will allow the transition agreement between AWA and AAA to be presented before a federal judge in a court of law. This will preserve the integrity of the agreement by all three parties and allow for a definitive answer as to whether USAPA can actually make arbitrary changes to it without consulting anyone. USAPA's biggest obstacle will be to argue that "final and binding" in the agreement THEY agreed to no longer applies. I predict these two legal claims will be short lived law suites because it is very black and white. The transition agreement is very specific how the seniority integration is to be conducted, including the finality of the arbitrator's ruling, and also how furloughs will take place. I am looking forward to how the USAPA lawyers are going to argue that the transition agreement which their client signed and agreed to no longer applies. A ruling in favor of the west will repudiate basically every tenet USAPA was created on. In Sept 2008 you stated:
The New American Airlines Merger Transition Agreement (MTA) was voted in by the pilot group (98% in PHX). It "nullifies" the previous Collective Bargaining agreements of US Airways East and West and the previous Transition Agreement where the Nicolau lived.
Paragraph 10h states:
h. US Airways agrees that neither this Memorandum nor the JCBA shall provide a basis for changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways other than through the process set forth in this Paragraph 10.
Paragraph 11a states:
Paragraph 11a states:
11. a. During the term of the MTA, US Airways shall not furlough any pilots who have established and maintain seniority on the US Airways mainline system as of the Effective Date. USAPA will
provide, by name, East Pilot “X” and West Pilot “Y” who will be the most junior US Airways pilots afforded this furlough protection.
It's pretty clear that 2 lists from the US Airways side will be presented to combine into the AA list, making one list. Hope that helps clear it up for you.
It's pretty clear that 2 lists from the US Airways side will be presented to combine into the AA list, making one list. Hope that helps clear it up for you.
A bystander just can't grasp it.
01-29-2014, 12:47 PM
#250
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 737
Originally Posted by R57 relay
I've always appreciated your POV. Can you explain to me why the 1 list instead of 2 is important to you guys? Just so the west won't be mad at you? That's what the MOU calls for us to go into the MB process with.
I refuse to get baited into an argument about E V W, but I read the Nic, and to be perfectly blunt, it shocked the h-ll out of me. Sweatsock's "Nic Fact Check" sums up well what the average outsider comes away with. Yes I know there were USA furloughees. But you just don't do this...
The 2005 hired west pilots are senior to 1988 east hired pilots (Not furloughed)
The 2003 west pilots are slotted in with the never furloughed 1987 hired east pilots
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