Airline Pilot Central Forums - APA Protocol Agreement proposal

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aa73 (Post 1669283)

No I would not be concerned because this thing is headed for arbitration no matter how APA or USAPA slants it.

And, as history has shown, if the arbitration is not to USAPA's liking, they will sue and drag this out as long as they can.

Correct... and thus my statement that the posturing between both unions is pretty much worthless. I don't see any "land grab" statements by APA, and usapa seems to be in quit a big hurry to do the SLI. In the end we need to allow the full process to run its course, and that's going to include plenty of posturing between both sides. Just the nature of the beast.

Edit: I was answering R57's post, not texaspilot.

Despite this disagreement, APA and USAPA need to work together hard on the JCBA negotiations. This is something we will all have to live with for years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1669191)

If and when they do and it's not to USAPA's liking, will they accept it ?

We both know they won't. ;) USAPA never negotiates (although they're masters of creating that illusion), they dictate and they've alienated almost everyone they've ever had contact with including other labor groups, arbitrators, airline executives, judges and even some of their own who haven't fallen down your rabbit hole.

It sounds as though you think the possibility of USAPA being handed its hat is out of the question. Confidence is a good thing in moderation. :D

Of course the day may come when you ask yourself, "why, oh why, didn't I take the red pill ?".

AOL has been litigating the same thing for seven years and still can't get a favorable ruling. Like I said the courts will settle this, and incase you haven't figured it out, the East has no quarrel with the courts handling it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleTurtle (Post 1669355)

.........and incase you haven't figured it out, the East has no quarrel with the courts handling it.

......right up until they receive what they believe to be an undesirable outcome occurs. Since we only have USAPA (East ALPA) past history to go on, I think most of us know what will happen then or some variation of it.

Why more of the same, of course. Obstruction, impedance, intransigence, demands and dictation. You can be absolutely sure USAPA has their next move in the spirit of those principles planned should the court deny USAPA's injunction.

Funny, nobody commented on the paper I provided a link to or the supposed APA DCA update.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa73 (Post 1669315)

Aa73,

Have you read Judge Silver's ruling in Addington II? The APA is leaning it pretty heavily, would you agree? We'll here is a note from the transcript:

"The parties have not explained how the process contemplated by the MOU could
ever take effect. The MOU contemplates the need for arbitration but also requires the post- merger carrier remain neutral. Under the Court’s reading of McCaskill-Bond, there will be no need for arbitration because, based on explicit language in the MOU, prior to the arbitration, there will have been an election and there will be only one certified representative for all pilots. Simply put, with the carrier having promised neutrality, there will not be two parties to go to arbitration."

See why we might worry? Fly likes to claim that the MOU is clear, but a federal judge had problems with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by texaspilot76 (Post 1669318)

Despite this disagreement, APA and USAPA need to work together hard on the JCBA negotiations. This is something we will all have to live with for years.

NAC Update: Reserve System Improvements

Both the APA and USAPA negotiating committees saw this as an opportunity to fix some of the ills of the Reserve system during these settlement discussions and to that end, members of both committees spent the last couple weeks working on the document.

Once the contract language is written, the MTA will be updated to reflect the changes.

USAPA Negotiating Advisory Committee

R57, I just don't see how this will not be arbitrated. We've got 3 different groups with 3 different points of view... there is no way this will be settled by APA alone. So relax man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1669092)

USAPA is playing with the concepts of "fact" and "interpretation". The FACT is the MOU REQUIRES completion of JCBA first and then SLI. USAPA is seeking to force seniority integration immediately in reverse order using its INTERPRETATION that McCaskill-Bond requires almost immediate arbitration of SLI issues now while they are A. still relevant and B. while they have the power to muzzle the West and as a result of a strategy they orchestrated to allow exactly this at exactly this early stage in SLI and pre-JCBA. Turning the timeline of the very foundation of the MOU on its head by unilaterally dissolving its fundamental path IS a nullification of its provisions, Q.E.D.

In the interim, USAPA is seeking injunctive relief until its demands are ruled on, are they not ?

They want to stop (nullify) the ENTIRE process because they want to do SLI arbitration now, while they are still relevant and in control of the West. I do accept this is falling on deaf ears as it's more then obvious USAPA has successfully filled a lot of gullible minds with emotion-filled sap.

Please point out your accusations

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

Issue an injunction permanently prohibiting APA, American and US Airways from attempting to resolve the seniority list integration dispute arising from the merger of American and US Airways through any process other than that provided by the McCaskill-Bond Amendment