Tic, Toc, Shmick, Shmock.......Who cares ? As I said, in the short-term the East can capture more upgrades and movement, but what's more important in the long run is actual placement on the list and short-term post merger advancement on the East won't alter that equation (although I have no doubt hungry felines like yourself ravenous to burp as many mice down at others expense is salivatingly enticing ;)).

Take your upgrades for the next couple of years, all it will likely mean is future frustration as those on the AA side and perhaps the West who didn't will move ahead to better seniority when they do. I'll raise your "Tic, Tock" and see you a "ring, ring" as in crew scheduling assigning you another RAP. :D

"frustration of the AA side"... that is funny. The APA is tickled purple to delay this. Purple I say. Tickled Purple. :D

Can you read ? What Usapain high school did you attend ?

The "frustration" I referred to was the EAST side when some of the Usapians like yourself see there is no long-term payoff for a year or two of faster upgrades and that it wasn't "tic, toc" they heard, but "Jack squat". :)

Purple...........you mean as is "The PurpleTurtle is hopped up on Purple juice" ?

Yes. Yes... The doom of the future is certain, and will be epic. Tic, toc.

Did anyone expect anything different from the APA? They are not new to this game and know how to play it very well. They will keep this up until an agreement is reached (and not in public), or a judge compels them to arbitrate. I think you will then see an agreement forged on how this will finally play out...

I personally don't have an issue with the West pilots having a committee to negotiate for their separate seniority list at US Airways in the SLI with American as long as they play by the rules of engagement. I don't think they can put forth the Nic anymore that the East can put forth a DOH combined list.

We will have 3 lists merged together on the merits of each list and what each has at the time of this merger.

I think the West should have West pilots defending their list and the positions they bring. I think they should be able to do that under USAPA to be legal under the NMB rules. Maybe some basic language like the APA tried to introduce so their committee cannot be influenced by USAPA East. But to try and introduce the NIC would not be in their scope as that would be trying to negotiate for the East. The Nic was never a legal list as we never attained a joint contract, and now that cannot happen. To try and use that would ignore the terms of the TA reached that produced the Nic in the first place. So the West must present their list and have it integrated on how they best see their pilots benefiting from the integration of the 3 lists. Be that DOH or status position, it's up to them.

And the East will be responsible for presenting their list and desires of methodology for integration. They cannot present a combined DOH East/West list as that would be negotiation for the West. So the East will fight for only their list, be it DOH, status or something else.

And of course the APA will defend their list how they see fit. But they will be responsible only for their list, not those of USAirways...

Just my views...

So, let's give the west a voice but don't allow them the freedom to argue what they desire, in effect, put a muzzle on them and prevent them from showing the arbitrators what has transpired the last 8 years.

Yes, because you have lost all the court cases regarding the NIC......So come up with another game plan...

I would imagine every East pilot would be fine with a west merger committee if it was agreed upon the NIC was never mentioned anywhere....

I would assume you would not agree to such....

He was more generous than you ever got from the judge. Ya gotta give him that.

If APA had such a strong case they would not need to make these types of announcements.

I'm waiting for arbitration/litigation to progress a Protocol Agreement.

There is nothing to discus until we get some direction from a "higher power."


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I don't see APA as avoiding arbitration, so why would they need to be compelled to arbitrate. They've now publicly stated their beliefs and intentions that they have no interest in controlling what the East decides for itself on the SLI path, so it seems pretty difficult to then go back on their public word. That would be something East ALPA (USAPA) would do, a'la the Nicolau award. If they did that now, they really WOULD be in deep kimche and pushovers in a DFR suit. I think the APA pulled their pants down today with that blast and MUST now allow an unmolested and fair process for all INCLUDING the East.

Rules of Engagement ? I'm sure that exists at Top Gun, but where is a description of that in SLI's ?

Why couldn't the West put forth the Nic or the East put forth DOH if they so choose ? What exactly prevents that ?

Wouldn't that be part of a fair and equitable process for each group to put forth any argument they please in negotiation or arbitration unimpeded ?

You seem to be advocating certain arguments are off limits and that is not in accordance with a free and open process. I thought USAPA wanted a free and open process ?

That's one argument. I'm sure there are others. Anyone is free to argue any position, however the flipside of that is that there is risk in getting too greedy with arbitrators. Didn't the East learn that the hard way once before ?

Are you guys really that frightened of the Nic ? You seem to be essentially saying the West should be free to argue any East-approved position (non-Nic) they want provided they are represented and controlled by USAPA and yet, it's unfair for APA to represent and control the East ?

You see no contradiction in that position ?

Unless the East/West SLI is arbitrated first with everything on the table for supposedly neutral arbitrators to consider and rule upon and THEN, that result is put forth against the AA list for negotiation and/or arbitration, someone isn't getting fair representation. It seems some think that "fair and equitable" doesn't exist UNTIL the SLI with AA occurs. Fair and equitable has to either be evident to solve the East/West issues first or if not, then for fair and equitable to exist in a sub-sequent 3-way scenario, all 3 parties must enjoy that ability. In SLI's, statement of position doesn't occur in a vacuum, i.e., you can't just argue "your" list. The interrelationship of the desired final product compels all parties to argue not just aspects of their list but others as well.


How about a 3-way arbitration where everyone gets to put forth their position for their own benefit and at their own peril ? Sounds good to me...............if only USAPA would allow that to occur. As long as the Nic is off limits, the West is mute (and moot) and the process is dead until a black robe revives it.