Vortexxx

This! Copied from another site.

"Without "real and meaningful" length of service, we pledge to defeat any proposal!"
That's what we all proclaimed the last time we communicated our position to everyone involved. It is now clear that we have no choice but to make good on that promise.

2 Years of LOS not only falls far short of what we expected based on precedent, it's also an insult to every one of us who suffered through the "Lost Decade" as a furloughed pilot.

While the supporters of this proposal will argue that it is a 23-30% raise, it still fails to properly recognize the sacrifices that we made and are continuing to make. In our last blast, we asked you to send an email to BOD members, senior management, and chief pilots containing the clear promise to vote “No” on any proposal that doesn’t contain at least 6 years of LOS. We are committed to following through with that promise and urge you to do the same.

Let's not forget that we as a group came off our position of Full (100%) LOS to meet everyone in the middle at 50% (6 year restoration), which we called "real and meaningful." The Company's offer of 2 years is not even 17% and is therefore unacceptable! APA's last proposal almost met our terms but management has chosen to reject it categorically and instead is attempting to circumvent our Union by negotiating with the pilot group directly by offering a 4% across the board raise to all employees while declaring negotiations over. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that new management is trying to prove our Union irrelevant and weaken it irreparably. Union busting 101!

There are other very important issues that negatively affect us, the junior, if a "Yes" vote prevails:


Lacking industry standard "Calendar Day" will continue forcing many of us on junior lines to fly 20+ days each month away from home for less pay.

The integration of International and Domestic Divisions; saving management from having to split up LUS, a very time consuming programing and logistics nightmare, not to mention the obvious safety issues of having to retrain a large contingent of domestic pilots at LAA. What are they offering us in return?

HBT based start times vs. local; might in the future provide more flying but in the present will reduce the need for FOs and FB/FCs in the system, directly affecting the ability of junior pilots to hold better paying Group 3 & 4 equipment.

LTD language; still industry lagging, preventing those affected from supplementing their incomes without losing their benefits.

Despite the gravity of these asks, company couldn't be bothered to have the contract language ready for our Union leaders.

Why are we being asked to vote on a contract we have not seen? They deliberately want to create the impression that time is of the essence and a big chunk of cash is hanging in the balance. This makes it impossible for us to fully inform ourselves of what long-term consequences these contract concessions will actually bring. No one is pretending the proposed pay rates are not alluring but look with eyes wide open at what your daily routine will be for the rest of your career and ask yourself: Is the newly proposed compensation adequate? There are far too many unknowns that we will have to deal with for years to come should this be ratified by the membership!

While it is true that an arbitrated decision almost assuredly will not contain LOS, it also will leave untouched all the other items that AAG is asking us to concede without proper compensation.

After many conversations with a cross section of our BOD Members, we've come to the conviction that voting “No” is the only way to achieve a more acceptable contract containing not only "more money" but also "real and meaningful" LOS, along with the other vital items because management will have to come back to the table to get what they want.

If the Company really wanted to, they could have proffered arbitration weeks ago... Why haven't they? It appears they are increasingly unwilling to risk further delay and loss of face with their investors on Wall Street; they promised a swift timeline to achieve the merger synergies and labor peace...their own outsized compensation packages are tied to meeting these goals.

Official Negotiations may appear to have ended for the moment, but the real deal-making behind the scenes has just begun and will continue throughout. Don't give in to their scare tactics. By voting “Yes”, we will only become industry laggards once more. We can do better and none of us can stomach being thrown under the bus again. The satisfaction of a raise, no matter how large, is fleeting. Onerous working conditions will remain a daily reality.

Vote NO!

Length of Service

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texaspilot76

Let me get this straight: the above poster is advocating for furloughees to accrue payscale longevity while they are on furlough?

You got to be kidding. If you're laid off, then you don't work here. All benefits and movement stops while you're gone. You shouldn't move up through the payscale while you're not active. Sorry about your luck, but laid off is laid off.

MarineGrunt

^^^great post. Making a strong case for their side without berating or name calling. Imagine that.

PRS Guitars

I disagree, LOS is probably what troubles me the most about this deal. I'd like to see full LOS. The problem is I'm not convinced they'll get any LOS under arbitration, so this might be the best option, im just not sure.

PRS Guitars

Wasn't sure which thread to put this in.

Anyone know where we stand on longevity pay raises (ie when one goes on the second year scale, third year scale, etc). At LUS it's Your yearly DOH anniversary at LAA its your yearly training completion anniversary.

For a new hire on the LAA side, that means delaying your pay raise by two months every year for 12 years. That probably equates to well over $100k in lost income. Seems pretty important to me that we use LUS's system. Will we have that in contractual language?

InformationEcho

I can't believe this is the same APA that told AMR to pound sand with their "LBFO" in bankruptcy.

Company profitable and now folks can hardly wait to sign up for a contract with incomplete language.Remarkable study in human nature.Offer lots of money, people stampede towards it.

All the *****ing and moaning about the MOU/MTA and bankruptcy contracts,yet people can't wait to vote in something with "At management's discretion" sprinkled liberally through it, because that is what incomplete language will get you.

The LAX reps seem to be devotees of Quisling, they should reap the same rewards he did.

InformationEcho

Unsure, in the Lemming-esque desire to "Get the raise and get it now!" there appear to be many areas of incomplete language.

Should this travesty pass, expect to lose anything that favors the employee.

Saabs

Wow. A certain texas pilot has already said he deserves to go ahead of aa furloughees as a new hire third lister now he doesn't believe they deserve any LOS? Is anyone else worried about some people's mindset when it comes to unity?

ghilis101

you guys are being sold a lemon, and the salesman is rushing you to buy, just sign here and get the deal done, "theres no time to waste, it wont be on the lot long." The mechanic (the BOD) gave the car a pre-purchase inspection and advised you "don't buy this car... but hey its your choice. If you really need a car then its up to you, but I don't think you should buy this car." Youre the customer, you have the purchasing power. Put your wallet back in your pocket and walk away for a better deal.

450knotOffice

Personally, I have a hard time believing that a majority of our pilots would agree to this without definitive Contract language. Bullet points would kill it for all but the staunchest yes voters.