Originally Posted by justjack

I think that we have to be careful about fighting each other especially on a forum like this. I think that the company needs to understand that the majority of the pilots see the company for what they are and we are unified in our utter contempt for them. We also see through the lies and deceit. There might be a few outliers and there are certainly lots of different opinions on how to proceed but this last move is the tipping point.

Originally Posted by Capt Hindsight

And this is how they get you to turn against your own union.
Capt H

Originally Posted by eaglefly

They don't need this (or any) forum to tell them that. They need look no further then the BOD for division. The BOD's excuses are they are acting in the interests of what the majority of their domicile members tell them. The only thing that can save AA pilots now is AA pilots. The BOD shuttle-passed the ball back to us and we either drop and curl for loss of the game or run the ball back for a TD to keep it going.

Originally Posted by biigD

Speaking of Group 1, did anyone else notice that 190 lines were painted at our (US) gates in SNA?

Originally Posted by justjack

But let's go over the facts. First Parker goes to the APA (who were willing to do anything to get rid of Horton) and negotiates a deal without so much as a word to the US pilots(who had worked at the lowest pay in the industry for a decade, facilitating the merger in the first place and who had a change of control clause in their sh*tty contract) knowing that this would ultimately cause a fragmented group of pilots, which is the culture that he thrived in for years.
Parker then drags his feet with negotiations... he had to wait for the FA's contract to get worked out??? Remember that - not so long ago?
Less than two weeks ago the APA agreed to accept the deal without sending it out for a vote with only a few changes. The company's answer was a flat "no" - not we can work on ONE thing, we can massage it - nothing- a flat "no" and "we are working on the exact language but the clock is ticking- tick tock." Now the company has insisted on an arbitrary deadline, which they know full well cannot be met. They know it is not possible to pass by the membership by the 19th.
SO for what we do not know:
If the company REALLY wanted this to pass, why then suddenly find a way to offer less which essentially insures that it will not?
Was the company taking our temperature and thought that might pass so they sabotaged the offer? Did they think it wouldn't pass so they sabotaged the offer? Are they trying to create an even more fragmented group of pilots? Are they trying to force the APA to pass it without a vote- AGAIN creating a more fragmented group?
Is there some information due out at the end of the month - between the 19th and the 30th - that will change things? Is this the bum's rush or are we being played- or both?
The only sure thing is this is a very very bad sign on top of too many other very bad signs. The culture of this airline has been truly and forever defined.

Originally Posted by texaspilot76

Thanks for costing me several thousand APA!

Theyre dragging their dang feet! There's plenty of time for them to put this out for a vote! 10 days is enough. You only need a week max for voting.

Originally Posted by justjack

But frankly, I would think that you would be happy with the APA- You did not want this to pass and they have sent it out for a vote. Did you want them to turn it down flat and not even give us a chance to vote - to only consider your opinion? If they had not sent it out for a vote, I (and many like me)would be livid. They cannot only represent one view point. Many of us worry that the MOU is not as good as the last offer and were waiting for a detailed, side by side, explanation which we expected would be forthcoming. Passing it without a vote now because the company says they must, is also wrong. I do not think that everything that the APA has done is perfect but under the circumstances that we now work, this is understandable. I have no doubt that the company had some demographics about this pilot group. 14 THOUSAND pilots can be frightening but divide them up and it's easy- and how easy it must have been to divide us. The company really hates the old guys and there's so many of us- we cost them so much more money. They can't wait to see us go but until then, they use the older pilot group as a pawn in the division.
When I wanted to get my kids to do something I would give them only choices that I liked- I knew that we were not really negotiating. The sooner we all realize that this is precisely what has happened here since day one, the sooner we will figure out how to proceed.