eaglefly

I've never said the Nic SHOULDN'T be used (I HAVE said I don't think it will in pure form, though). I've said IF it's used, then that results in a windfall based on the West's proposal (the only litmus to go on) as applied to LAA pilots.

Unfortunately not.

Look, we can throw our own proposals out here all we want, but I see that as kinda pointless. The arbs likely will disagree in some respects with all of us. As for your model, the longevity component is still questionable as I think LAA pilots take a disproportionate hit in that category compared to West pilots. Additionally, so far that component also has..........or at least HAD some undefined and segmented recognition in the AAPSIC's proposal as it specifically mentioned AE flows (with contradiction), but offered little definition of native furloughees in comparison, so step 1 has problems right off the bat IMO.

Anyway, even if we agreed here, it would be semantics as forum opinions have never impacted an SLI as far as anyone knows, at least in theory.

Upsddown

Eaglefly,

I am under no illusion that I can propose the ultimate solution. I am just trying to determine whether you and Eskimojoe are trying to argue reasonable broad based solutions or your positions are based purely on selfish interests.

Based on your response I can only conclude you are taking a very self-interested position based on your previous Eagle flow through placement and your position is based purely on that advocacy.

EskimoJoe

Demanding other parties to abide by their written agreements isn't a self interested position. Demanding Final and Binding be Final and Binding isn't a self interested position. Demanding that a hard won Injunction designed to level the playing field for the West...for once isn't a self interested position.

Aside from the West and Federal Judges, everyone else involved in this seems to enjoy playing stupid. If you want to see selfishness and self interest in quantities too large to describe, look no further than The Company, East Pilots...and so far, to a lesser extent, the APA.

The West's reply briefs shredded Each of those groups. Silver already knows what kind of dishonest scum bags the East are. Now she gets to see whose been aiding and abetting them this whole time. When all of this is settled, don't be surprised to see the West train their legal sights right on the forehead of Doug Parker and his "going for great" BS Airline.

eaglefly

Fair enough, but.....

...this part doesn't surprise me. Since apparently for some unexplained reason you believe I seek (or advocate) gaining "additional" longevity by reordering the LAA seniority list as part of the merged ISL that places me above premerger LAA pilots I'm presently junior to, even buttressing that by claiming Supp W AE pilots lost in an arbitration when, in fact we WON the issue in the most relevant arbitration, that being FLO-0107 under Richard Bloch where the APA sought to expunge our AA seniority entirely so that we stayed at Eagle (post #201 En Banc denied !), it doesn't surprise me you've come to this conclusion so quickly.

Since that belief is totally in error (along with your arbitral recollections), it's of no surprise you believe me to be unreasonable in questioning the concept of longevity and how it may be applied to LAA pilots vs. other groups and internally regarding LAA furloughed pilots vs. AE SUPP. W flows.

Bias breeds further bias.

eaglefly

Yes, everyone who see's other aspects that complicate this situation FURTHER as opposed to simplifying it all must be selfish.

Ahh, now we have a conspiracy. Well, then if that's the case, you might as well include the 9th to your list of selfish conspirators as didn't they specifically refuse to cover all parties including the arbitrators with the blanket the West demands ?

I think you're going to have to sell a ****load of new ties for that one.

EskimoJoe

No need for ties. We own the millions of dollars in the USAPA treasury. We'll use that. The bottom line is the whole E/W situation isn't ANY business of any LAA pilot. To put your nose into it can only be out of self interest. Again, there will be LUS slots above and below you. Why the hell do you care whose name is in those slots?

Sliceback

A simple longevity/status merge ignores the gains experienced in later years.

Upsddown

Eaglefly,

What's the point of putting additional in quotes ("additional"). It's your continued claim that APA has not given something you were entitled to. To my knowledge (prove me wrong) there is no arbitration that ordered APA to give you the longevity that YOU think your entitled. It's just your argument, it's not my bias.

Your are on a singular rail about YOU. You have continually argued that the West pilots should not be advantaged as a result of this merger particularly if it effects LAA pilots. I give you a solution that does that and you reject it because it does not provide you with what you want - additional (no quotes) longevity.

Upsddown

Eskimojoe,

You want the Nic list. What's your views on my proposed solution?

EskimoJoe

I'm fine with it. I don't want a single LAA pilot to pay for the East either. Culpability has been proven in a court of law. I hope the consequences are appropriately leveled at the guilty party only.