Originally Posted by Route66

I do not believe ANYONE outside the committees have "seen" the opinion AND list, both of which were given to all in draft form. That much is known. However, the rebuttal arguments should be limited to mistakes and errors that the arbitrators may have overlooked and by giving ALL the committees the ability to "look it over" for mistakes and errors and possibly some small tweaking and input makes the process more inviting and cooperative. Appearance of giving and getting input to remain relatively open minded for the arbitrators to consider.

While it MAY "seem strange" I do not believe it to be unwise and might very well prove that the Arbitrators have given everyone the opportunity to rebut with arguments that MAY have some influence on the final opinion but I do not believe it will change much now that everyones expectations on where they went is soon to be open territory.

And besides, once the final opinion comes out I'm sure the "draft opinion" will be released and we'll all be able to compare just how "fair & equitable" the opinion is and everyone can run for the fences (pun).

My "conclusions" are pieced together from rumors and the lay of the land. I'll stand by them and when the award comes out I'll let it speak for itself.

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

I think we are both getting two very different answers to the same question. I was told that the draft was totally incomplete and that it was done that way on purpose. Why? No idea. What was said was the certain items were addressed and that the panel wanted rebuttal arguments on those. I agree that it may have said something to the effect of LOS and even wide body fences which I really doubt comes to pass where LUS internal movement is the issue. What happens if the LOS argument was met with two good rebuttal positions? There is just too much meat left on this bone for me to just toss in the trash heap.

WD

Originally Posted by PurpleTurtle

And the Continental pilot that got Continental back into the ALPA dues paying fold (with their multitudes of scabs) became the ALPA presidente. It's all about the dues.

Originally Posted by Route66

Well, if the draft was incomplete, and done on purpose, what logic would it be to ask for input and have a pseudo list that changes 180 degrees in an opposite direction? If what you say is true then it sounds, at best, a very illogical method of finding a balance.

Why have "a draft" then?

Let's just open it up to another month of "arguments" and keep the $$$$$ flowing? Doesn't add up and pass the smell test. Why the confusion and keep everyone guessing? What purpose does that serve? If only to truly keep the arbitrators in control? Why obfuscate the committees? Etc, etc.

Originally Posted by airmailpilot

United Airlines, now merged with Continental Airlines, has the largest amount of scab pilots working currently for an airline. 2500 plus.
They are the largest group of pilots that belong to ALPA.

ALPA's golden boys. (sarcasm)

Originally Posted by sackofpotatos

Ok folks, long time listener, first time caller from west of the Rockies.

Who know what I'm talking about?


Anyway, seems to me this is all but done at this point.


This exercise in mental masturbation of the requirement for a comment period is just about done. Comments have been made and what happens with those comments will never be known.


What is known is that the list will be on our doorstep in just days, or maybe a week or so.


I don't know when exactly, I just know that once made public, that is it! It's over.


Like many have stated, get used to the new list, because that is the list your career is going to have to abide by, for the rest of your career.




Good luck to all, because the end is here.


What anybody does in reaction to that end is nothing more than another case of where yet another group decided to make their attorneys more money.


Let's all try to not make lawyers more money, not they don't deserve it, just that someone telling me what I want to hear is not necessarily a good thing for me.

Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver

Well I am just guessing because its never been done like this in the past. The award would come out and there would be no rebuttal just pass it out. I am getting hung up on this need for a rebuttal in the first place. A rebuttal in its true form is a form of evidence that is presented to contradict or nullify other evidence that has been presented by an adverse party. Now this is why I am getting hung up on it being more than dotting I's and crossing T's. The panel put together a draft and gave the parties an opportunity to argue for or against them. Clearly their minds are not totally made up or maybe they are and the MB calls for this phase in its rules. I don't and can't speculate on it.

WD

Originally Posted by Route66

There is no rebuttal. This is an arbitration. And I do not believe, again, that it's rebuttal. It's there to find errors and omissions. I think their minds are made up and to rehear months of briefs and testimony only perverts what they already decided. Like someone else said, mental masturbation and tea leaf reading.