AZFlyer

Perhaps someone can indulge this high-wing turboprop pilot's curiosity about crosswind landing technique in large jets, and in particular Airbus vs. Non-Airbus...

As you would expect for the category of airplane I fly, the oldschool wing-low/rudder to hold CL method works just fine...however I take it that this is not the typical method for large jets with underwing engines...but I always assumed it was primarily just to avoid scraping a motor on the pavement. What about jets with tail mounted engines: either method for them (assuming adequate wingtip clearance)?

Are large transport jets designed to be capable of touching down without taking out the crab angle? I would think the side-load forces would be significant!

And then trying to grasp what people are talking about with how the Airbus flies versus....ahem...a normal plane...

swaayze

Yeah, crosswinds, ugh. Had 15g20 left direct the other day (remember I have maybe 10 landings so a challenge for little ol me), kicked right rudder late (maybe too rapidly?) so swept wing moves forward and rolls right significantly. Couldn't help but big bump left, then of course back right. Dislike.

But I will keep an open mind.....

AZ flyer, it's complicated, but in a sense the AB continues any stick input you make so you cannot hold wing down and nose straight with opposite rudder in the flare. You have to neutralize the stick to stop an increasing roll/pitch.

Arado 234

For all those that want a more detailed in-depth AB crosswind explanation -> http://http://www.airbus.com/fileadm...LAND-SEQ05.pdf

Big E 757

When is the last time you spoke with a mental health professional?

I flew the MD80 for three plus years and I enjoyed it too. I found the guys that bad mouthed it the most, had never flown it. It's best to make peace with the aircraft, and make the best of it, warts and all.

Thedude

In the 727, I could do both. Either the wing low method (really more of a slight slip just before touchdown) or the kick at under 100'. For very strong X-W, I used the kick method. Normally i would just use slight rudder and slight aileron.

In the 747, I used the wing low (or level) or maybe slightly higher power on one side. I tried to use the kick method a couple of times in strong X-W but way too much mass moving around at max landing of 630,000 lbs. IIRC you were limited to around 7 degrees of roll before you would strike a pod engine. I limited it to 5. Plus above 5 you would get spoiler intermix which could make it worse.
The higher power on one side worked great assuming that all 4 throttles knobs were closely matched. Couple of a/c that I few were so out of trim for the throttle lever angle that it was almost 2 knob widths split.

In the 777, IIRC, the auto land system would put in the rudder and aileron correction at around 200' for a wing low. It did an excellent job too.

The A-300 flew like a normal airplane. Then again it was more of a Mc-D product than what we now know as Airbus.
Except it didn't like to go up or didn't like to come down....kinda like the 321.

I don't really like touching down in a crab and side loading the tires. That is the only time I have seen tires blow.

Sliceback

AZ - Boeing recommends wing low cross control. But the planes will tolerate full crab landings.

I've late kicked, below 20', various types of airliners. No different than I did in turboprops. They're just a jet, don't over think it. An adjustment is the higher sink rate and advancing wing effect that tends to raise the upwind wing as you kick it straight. If you use too much aileron and you get spoiler deployment which starts lurching the a/c. Some guys develops PIO's in roll because of that. The 737 F40 is the worst. And with under wing engines there's a risk of a pod strike. But the limitation, while numerically small, is visually ugly do most guys chicken out based on what they're seeing before they reach the limitation. I've yet to see anyone get close to a pod strike.

And in some jets there's a combination technique in higher crosswinds. Above X any additional crosswind should be dealt with crab vs increased wing low.
Any crab, and/or lateral drift, almost always degrades the seat of the pants feeling you experience at touchdown. Land with both, ie not enough cross control so you're still in a crab, and a lateral drift to the downwind side, typically destroys any chance of a reasonable touchdown. And then there are the drifting, crabbing, landings on the downwind tires. Ugh.

Al Czervik

WUT??

Filler.

Varks

People with much more experience in an Airbus than me can chime in. I am with Sliceback. Don't overthink it. The wingtip or engine pod hits at 18 degrees. We have a mandatory call out at 7 degrees. I have found it takes very little rudder and wings just about level. 20 knots is the most I have done and it seamed pretty simple. I really fight the urge to put ailerons into the wind on takeoff. They tell us not to.

I have witnessed many MD 80 pilots landing in a crab. We have clipped our fare share of wing tips in that aircraft. I was told by a check airman that every wingtip ever dragged on the MD80 was the downwind wing. Wild ride.

LuckyNow

Regarding XW landings in the 737, I'm definitely in the minority, but I click off the ATs if there's a good XW. The 737 will start to come to idle at (I think) 27 feet and that'll screw you up if there's too much wind. Some guys just push against it idling, I prefer to just idle it myself at about 10 feet.

AZFlyer

Thanks for the explanations, fellas. I suspect it would take my brain a few reps to trust doing something other than the wing-low/cross control method.

Going wing low in a 737? That thing can barely taxi without dragging it's knuckles on the ground! I drove SC-7 Skyvans in a previous life...stiff crosswinds with that big upright billboard fuselage was fun work, though.

Looking for a visual, I came across this video, which I imagine most people here have already seen, but it was interesting to see that most of these guys landed pretty much in a crab, though maybe that has more to do with how strong the winds are in this video. (Also saw one guy deploy only the upwind thrust reverser @the 2'02" mark...never seen anything like that before).