BigJetBabyBucks

This is a tough one.

I wish this weren't the case, but I think ATI and their holding company, ATSG, are better companies overall. People I know at ATI, Omni - and yes, even ABX - tend to love working where they're working. ATI and Omni are home based (significantly better than Atlas' gateway travel), management treats their employees well, and are paid pretty well for ACMI/charter. It's not that Atlas is a bad option - people generally like working here, too - but the caveat is that there's this overshadowing sentiment that we're severely underpaid (even by ACMI standards), that management is at war with the pilot group, and that job security is at risk pending scope being gutted once we likely go to arbitration. Those are all very real threats. Likewise, my concern with going to ATI would be that virtually all growth is predicated on Amazon contracts. On the positive side, Atlas is well-diversified, they have 4 different fleet types that you'll be able to train and get experience on after the Southern merger is complete, and the company is killing it after a year of record profitability and receiving a $406 million windfall of taxpayer dollars.

Now if you had an offer at Atlas, ATI, and Kalitta, I'd tell you to go to Kalitta.

BigJetBabyBucks

Negotiations occur again next week.

Can the company and union come to an agreement for a new contract as a Christmas present to the pilot group?
Stay tuned. The company last said our union's proposal would cost north of $615k per pilot. If that were true, AAWW management should give the Atlas Air pilots the UPS/FedEx contract so they could save more than half on their labor costs.

akfrtdwg 57

All negotiations with the company have been suspended until the Southern and Atlas leadership are on the same page again actually. This was announced Weeks ago. If I remember correctly from the email screenshot I saw. The Southern Union Leadership approached the company with their own CBA proposal and the company told them to go talk to the Atlas Union leadership rather than address it. At that point the company seemed to sensed a rift and withdrew from any further bargaining. Probably going to use this rift as an argument to postpone arbitration as well. So yay.
I don’t know why you would even think our management team would ‘gift’ us with a new CBA.

WhipWhitaker

Southern has not proposed anything to the company except for the ridiculous joint offer that was put forward by 2750.

BigJetBabyBucks

So much drama from this pilot group. For the user considering ATI or Atlas, take note.

blinkpilot182

First off congrats on having 2 offers in this job market.

It’s hard to choose an airline. I won’t give you the woes you’ll face if you come to Atlas. If you read through this forum enough you’ll see the pitfalls we face and the potential we have. I’ll leave that at that.

Here’s what I’d consider:
1. Present contract and work rules vs future contract and work rules for each carrier. We have no idea exactly what we’ll end up with here at Atlas but if you read through this forum enough or talk to some Atlas folks you’ll get enough tea leaves to read. Unfortunately no one on here will be able to give you a straight answer on our future (myself included). Anyone claiming to know exactly what’s gonna happen is yanking your chain or has been hanging out with Mr. Jack Daniels too much when they posted.

2. Potential longevity of each company. Especially if either airline may be your career destination. In my experience you should treat each airline that hires you as the last one you’ll ever fly for.

3. With an ACMI I would also consider diversity of each companies clients.

4. QOL, QOL, QOL. Don’t willingly put yourself in a position to be miserable.

5. What are your goals with your career? You have to live with your decision.

6. Do you have a spouse or S/O? Bring them in to this conversation. They’re gonna have to listen to your complaining for years to come. (Lol)

As with every decision in aviation, you’ll never know if you made the right one until retirement day. If either Atlas and/or ATI stick around until the day you turn 65 there’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to retire comfortably from either one IF you are responsible (I’m sure you are). Good luck to you.

Cheers,
-blink


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Newcargopilot

Thank you so much for the replies. I can see positives for both companies. I guess the big “if” is what kind of contract Atlas gets. I’ve met great people at both companies so it’s certainly a hard choice.

Radials Rule

Like the ridiculous offer (current book) put forth by management? Negotiations 101. Both sides start at the extremes.

akfrtdwg 57

The company didn’t offer current book. When I calculated what that did to my income I lost a rather large chunk of change. I mean no Rig in base. No overtime premium, no paid R2. These are already benefits we enjoy and the company pushing us to buy them back is insulting. Their offer can’t even be considered legitimate at this point so it’s really not negotiating. Maybe if they would tender an offer someone could have worked from we could say they are negotiating. But at this time they are not.

Elevation

Rolling 10yr mean NTSB accidents per departure. Same applies when you look at European data.