Turbine1

From our lead negotiator today:
​​​​​​"On Thursday, management responded to our Term Sheet Supposal. Their response to our supposal unfortunately only focused on closing out the most insignificant items in the document. (350 items contained in the Term Sheet)
Today, in an attempt to further make progress in negotiations, we made a comprehensive closeout supposal where we created a package deal in an attempt to reach tentative agreements on Article 7 – Vacation, Article 13 – Leaves of Absence, and Article 14 – Sick Leave.
We met again with management this afternoon where they responded by rejecting our closeout package. Their response to our supposal again only focused on closing out the most insignificant items in the document.
Management stated they would not entertain any concepts or offers that had financial impact associated with them unless they were part of a comprehensive economic proposal. As you know, we have already made our comprehensive economic offer but it was summarily rejected."

God forbid one of our pilots goes out on maternity leave, it might bankrupt the company.

Only a couple of negotiation sessions left before it's all handed off to the arbitrator assuming fences are mended with Local 1224. Now is not the time to have two fractured pilot groups or demand anything less than industry standard (UPS). The company will demand the arbitrator cram down pay and work rules orders of magnitude less than a Kalitta level CBA which will essentially be current book, with their concessions of no base rig or OT pay thrown in for good measure. If that happens and the hiring rumors are to be believed, they'll be 4000 pilots here enduring the worst contract in the industry into the 2030's. Atlas has no goodwill towards their crews and will not feel pity if we negotiate against ourselves. Asking for less will just make it easier for the arbitrator to award a lot less.

Elevation

I'm actually not upset, and I think I'd enjoy talking with you. I dare say I'd enjoy spending time listening to you speak for a while.

I'm just not willing to accept the idea that appropriate voting somehow derails getting a first-class CBA. That may be what you're calling a tantrum. Making many, long posts on forums doesn't impress anybody and I know full well that this doesn't make me look good or make friends. I think some of the attitudes that you've transmitted to others need to be countered when they arise. The result is I'm going to embarrass myself. I'll risk my reputation to fight a general "Father knows best!" attitude that comes indirectly from the people charged with representing us.

Exactly how does ignoring the pilots somehow serve their interests? I haven't seen this laid out in any form that makes sense. Telling me and others who disagree with this that we're laughable, having tantrums, etc. is dodging the issue at hand and, frankly, cowardly.

Nobody is asking to vote on everything. We're asking to vote as scheduled and on things that clearly should come with a vote. I suspect you know this too. And what are the immense benefits we've reaped from being ignored? How are we better off than we would have been had voted on our fate?

My goal is not to undermine the authority and credibility of the exco. In fact, I'm trying to maintain it. Our leadership was voted into office a long time ago. The vote itself IS the authority and credibility of the exco. The Exco, whenever we get one, will be bigger than any single or group of personalities. You have to preserve the legitimacy of this office if you want it to last.

My genuine fear is that these stretches that our "leaders" are making are going to be short term investments to benefit a few careers. Once this contract is arbitrated and all the dust settles people will be so fed-up that the IBT will lose another airline. That's not going to come from me or anyone else who's loud. It's going to come like a bolt from the blue. Make no mistake, we're very close to a pretty strong decertification drive. I genuinely think this is a bad fate for us since whatever future union we move to will likely be as bad or worse than what we have today. That pathway leads to just another clique of connected folk who like power. What will be our defense then?

That's the cost of ignoring the basics of representing the 2000 pilots you talk about. This is why it's so important we make things work as advertised now.

Also I don't think the entire Exco is entirely bad. The negotiating committee chair, for example generally is above board. There are other members, even ones who talk about joining management who seem decent. Rather than keep their intentions secret, they could instead move into the open. There are ways for these folks to advance into positions they want without the subterfuge we see. Our new stewards chair is a fundamentally decent and competent person, although I disagree with the value of lanyards. We have talent and honor in our leadership. It's that we have just enough rot in just a few seats to squelch out these people.

The bylaw process is not justification for the delayed vote we're seeing. The committee handled business efficiently and we rapidly got amended and ratified bylaws. Almost immediately after that the bylaws were ignored by our trustee.

Elevation

This is a very important point to make.

zerozero

I'm glad you agree.

Let's all start pushing in the same direction for a change.

Elevation

I vote we push that way. >>>>

PolarTiger

Is that the guy who takes a UB Day while sailing around on his boat? Or the other guy that brags about how he sends just 1 email and justifies it as a UB day?

Droopy

Pushing ^^^^^^^^^^^

Wait, wut?

mcfadden

There are a lot of us at Southern that are right there with 2750 on striving for industry standard. We're currently stuck with union leadership that doesn't appear to be striving for that as well but no one should assume this means that a majority of Southern pilots feel the same way.

Most of our pilots have joined the company in just the past couple years and I think the majority view here is not in line with the direction of our current union leadership. Keep up the good fight and let's get that industry standard or better contract!

C17B74

Doh, that’s a “trigger” for sure Or whatever lighter fluid type reference you want to call it. Definitely one for myself so I will refrain and say, let’s all move forward together and get the work done, spend our money smartly and get our contract done. Here’s a nod for 2021...

petras52

Correction to UPS disability benefits..first 6 months enrolled pilots receive benefits from a union mutual aid plan...during the next 24 months ups benefits kick in..after that long term disability benefits paid by an insurance company that enrolled pilots pay premiums to kick in to age 65...
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