Davetastic and TiredSoul.... you guys have bright futures in airline management if you so desire.

 

Just because I ask pointed question about TRAINING comparisons doesn't make me a "company guy". If you had read ANY of my posts, you'd realize that I agree with our solidarity message and with our union. Our training department doesn't need to be beaten up because guys are failing out of training. Guys get re-trained at EVERY airline and there are pink slips to be handed out at every airline as well. If you are unable or unwilling to recognize that pilots own their training and not the training department, then you are in the wrong profession.

And btw Sandstorm,....you can go on and beat me up on this forum like the internet tough guy that you are but why don't you answer the question: What is YOUR expectation of training at Atlas? You and Cruzer both, without substantiating your position, look like trolls and a position without credibility will most likely be ignored by prospective new hires which contradicts your ultimate goal of trying to steer possible pilot candidates away.

 

No desire Sandy.
But I’m here to actually be helpful and maybe informative instead of just regurgitating vitriol you’ve been fed.

 

Sandstorm...they don't understand that by sugar coating they are actually helping the company.

Of course now they will deny that they sugar coat.

The truth is that there is worse training in the industry AND there is training that is a hell of a lot better.

The biggest problem with Atlas training is that we have certain instructors that are only there to maximize their personal pay check. Not every instructor is like that.....but there are too many who don't give a **** about the student and only care about the paycheck.

 

Sure, that is how it works, when someone disagrees with the interwebz, attack them with insults and call them company men. Injecting discord and malcontent into the psyche of prospective candidates intentionally, subconsciously or otherwise is an age old worn out tactic and it is easily spotted but I'll bite. How did I "sugar coat" anything? How am I helping the company? All I did was ask a question to which you and the others have yet to answer.....What do you expect from training? AT ANY AIRLINE? Do you believe that there are instructors at United or American who teach because it is their passion and would forgo the pay override?

What do you consider worse? or better training than Atlas? How do you quantify your statement and where is your comparative analysis?




crickets.

 

You are correct. There has been so much worse in this industry in training. No ACMI has better training than Atlas, maybe with the exception of ABX back in the day. ABX "ate their own children" and made life miserable for new hires, or so I have heard. Funny, our TC sits on 36th Street. Maybe a historian should give a talk to new hires about Miami aviation history. It would be amusing, and I am somewhat proud to have survived those trash bag airlines. I asked our IBT rep in the TC about failures, and he didn't see a change in the percentage, only now they are training large groups on the -400 (hence 3X the failure rate). HR has thrown some knuckleheads into 767 training, but for the most part I see a lot of pretty sharp folk on the twin. Washing out guys who maybe shouldn't be on a flight deck is a good thing. A good student who listens and has the requisite skills should not fail the program (especially the 767 program).

 

I’m telling you about my experience.
No more no less.
This forum stuff works really easy.
Just check somebody’s threads and postings.
If it’s just ****ing and moaning for 3 years on just one thread you know they’re here for only one reason.
To **** and moan.
One didn’t get hired by UPS and the other didn’t get hired at AA.
So they accepted a job offer at Atlas then feel sorry for themselves and
**** and moan,
**** and moan,
**** and moan,
Ad Infinitum,
Ad nauseum...

 

This is the kind of stuff prospective candidates want to read about and thanks for that.

I have talked and flown with a lot of you guys too. Where you guys have come from and what you have survived over the years is amazing. My aviation career has not been as colorful or storied. GA, CFI, RJ, here. I have not had to endure any furloughs(I missed the one at XJT, but I was forced to do a trans-con commute), but one thing I learned flying pax was I knew I never wanted to do that again. Sure, we need a contract and fast but what S.A has done with our training department has all but mirrored what I went through year over year at XJT with the one exception being the lack of AQP. FWIW, our PT and the RLOFT is a step in the right direction.

I have said it before, our training department is not a reflection of the company demeanor toward our pilot group. Everyone instructor is there to help you pass. I have personally witnessed guys whom I passed judgment upon and did not give a chance to pass solely because of the lack of airline background or heavy equipment experience. Turns out those guys worked very hard and passed without any re-training. On the other hand, I had a guy in my class who was typed in the A/C and washed out. He didn't work, or study and assumed that the PC would be handed to him. He blamed everyone except himself. He brought his sim partner up on a complaint to the TC. He was ultimately fired and I say GOOD RIDDANCE. I don't want to fly with those types. Who does? And I should know, because I am a knucklehead !! lol.

 

It's not all about passing training. Stick and rudder, flying ILSs, V1 cuts, etc. checks the box for about 10% of what we do here.

What Atlas really has trouble with is throwing people into international/oceanic world with very little training, expecting line captains to provide OJT. If you're paired up with new-hires fresh off OE, good luck feeling comfortable taking a break on a crossing.

It's not the new-hire's fault, mind you; it's the Atlas training program that skims over so much of the meat and potatoes of what we do here, hoping they'll pick it up once on line. Very unfair for everyone involved, trust me.

 

Agreed. So what is the remedy? I don't think it is so much the training centers fault per se but rather that we don't have verbiage in our contract that allows for IRO lines for example. It is not that Atlas training "skims" but rather our contract is so hollow Atlas is wiling to take the risk to put green on green pairing wherever that may be. Because our contract is so outdated it doesn't set a mandate to put experience on high risk routes. In other words, our feeble contract doesn't even define "high risk routes".