Okay, if the Teamster DB plans are such a great idea, why hasn't the industry gone in that direction?

Why hasn't ALPA convinced the Legacy masses that it's a better idea than a 401k contribution?

The core issue is trust. (At least with the 401k, I can hold the idiot in charge accountable.)

Nobody would trust management with their retirement anymore, and I doubt you'll find a huge groundswell willing to turn it over to the Teamsters, either. But I'm willing to listen to a cogent argument, although perhaps you might have more impact on the 1224 forum so we know who's talking.


But I should listen to you? :D

I find that the older I get the less I know, so probably not.

If you had been around during the time, you'd know that the airlines don't want to have anything to do with DB plans because they are forced to write the checks when they are due; they can't get a deferral waiver.

The Teamsters don't run or control the plans. They are run by independent actuaries and the IBT has no control over them at all.

What idiot will you hold responsible for the 401k?

It's not a 401K controlled by me so I don't want it. Given the history of the Teamsters do you really trust them more than yourself to manage your retirement?

Exactly! Why in the world would you rather turn your retirement over to someone else when it can be in an account with your name on it? Hopefully the pilot group is smarter than that.

Class of 4, 3 showed. There's a spot for you.

Me. Came from a regional that offered the same stellar retirement plan that Atlas does, the same pathetic 401k match, but all things considered, so far, so good.

Congrats! In training now. They said they hired something like 18 out of 20 interviewees this last round up in NY.

Actually the 4th showed up, he just left on day 3 after he got the letter from Delta.

Given you comment, you have no understanding of the retirement plans or of how they are managed. Just as you compare the Teamsters now to the old era and what has happened post DoJ.

If you did, you'd understand how locked down they are on finances and how they have no attachment or access to the retirement plans. In other words, they have no plans to run. Members can vote to join outside, independently run, professionally managed plans. Or you can vote to have a 401 (k). You vote, you decide.

401(k)'s are great until the market hiccups or collapses. A defined plan takes the money, invests it and then when you retire, takes it and buys an annuity in your name and controlled by you that pays a nice dividend monthly, never touching your principal.

Further, given the vesting schedule, it allows you to retire earlier, if you choose, with a full retirement.

A 401 (k) is a nice add on, but not something I'd bet my long term retirement on.

Class Date
 

Any idea on when the new class date will be set for? How many?
Thanks

How about one more voice in this retirement debate. IMHO I would rather have double digit deposit into my 401K every two weeks as long as it isn't a match. Let me put it in the funds or brokerage of my choice and let it ride. It takes sacrifice on your part to fully fund said 401K, but its portability really appeals to me.

As for pensions, I get that they aren't all created equal and I don't want to debate specific plans and whether its solvent or not. This is what I don't like about them... If the power brokers in DC are willing to reduce the earned retirements of military vets for short term budgetary gains as they were last year, and then only yielded after significant lobbying efforts... who's to say they wouldn't be willing to slip something into a bill to "help" those organizations who manage other pensions... even union pensions. Call me cynical, but if I can't trust Uncle Sugar to live up to his blood debt to vets, why should I trust any union or company CEO to honor their commitments when times get tough and they need to balance their books?

Just my 2¢

Got the call..
 

Interviewed on Oct 7th, tossed into the pool on the 16th and got the call this morning for a Jan 5th class date on the 767.

Thanks to all that took the time to submit info here. Best thread ever!

See some of ya online. :)

Do you get the part that the Teamsters DON'T have pension plans that they run? To do what you envision would require it being done to ALL pension plans and require a re-write ERISA rules? For a pension plan where a fund gets the money directly from the company...plus and additional voluntary employee contribution above the agreed to amount...how would the government interject themself?

Congrats, Turbo! Jumped into the pool yesterday, hoping for a short swim. Hope to see you in Miami!

I bet these guys wish they would have gone with a 401K match!

Fears Over Pension Funding - WSJ

the gov't has got your back ;)

Congress eyes move to cut pension benefits

Dude, congrats...I interviewed around the same time, but am still in the pool as I write this.

All: is there any SA as to whether that's it for Jan?

That's great... I want the Teamsters to have nothing to do with my retirement. Period. Their job is to negotiate what I get. Give me American Airlines's retirement plan. If we get any form of a pension or anything that is in any way attached to the Teamsters then I'll have to change jobs so that I can get a retirement.

I'm the son of a financial planner so I do know a little bit about it. My other parent was an airline pilot so I'm fully aware of what allowing others to "manage" your retirement leads to.

Your understanding of how a retirement (401K, Roth IRA, and emergency fund) should be managed lacks basic understanding of how it should work. When you're young (like me) the bulk of your money should be invested into equities like mutual funds which may do bad the next year but perform at around 12% over the course of time. As you get older you shift your money to lower risk investments such as bonds that don't crash with the market. If you really lost every thing in the Great Recession then you lost it because you weren't responsible enough to read a book on how to manage your retirement. If you were in your mid to late 50s you should've been almost exclusively in stuff like Bonds which wouldn't have hit you.

Please don't take my advice. Read a book. Talk to an expert. It's important enough to read given that people are naive enough to think that their best option is to let the Teamsters manage their retirement. Letting others manage your retirement will result in them robbing you blind just like what's happened everywhere else recently.

+1... What could possibly go wrong with a pension?

And good luck with that in your 401k and IRA. But then I bet that your parent has something to sell to me.

The problem we all face as we age is that we can not participate effectively in the bond market at the individual level. Nor can can we buy an annuity without financing some insurance agent's new 911.

When I was in my 20s, 30s and 40s I spewed this same line. On my previous airlines forum on CompuServe (I am that old) I refereed to defined benefit plans as things that crawled out of the Wall Street sewer.

The reality is that we have been sold a bill of goods that is deeply flawed. Having "our own money" makes us prey to longevity risk, while at the same time making us prey to any number of scams that claim to address it. Want to buy bonds? Nibble at the crumbs from the grown up's table and pay 1% for the privilege, but don't worry because the markup is hidden and you won't see it. Want to buy an annuity on your own? No problem -- after we give slimeball his 4%.

Reality is that retirement is a set of tactics, starting with having your basic living cost annuitized (SS and something you buy or that is company benefit). Then using the rest for discretionary expenses and inflation.

Good luck with the annuitizaiton element. At least your parents's cut might end up in your inheritance.

Also swimming in the pool...thank the lawd for arm floaties...

If you can read thousands of pages of bland garbage and memorize it for your job then you can do it for your retirement.... Or you can give it to someone else who will steal from you. Your choice... I'll take my chances managing it myself.

I apologize for the tone of my post 9940. That was out of line.

With the exception of US Treasuries, the fixed income element is fraught with fees, hidden costs and inefficiency for the individual investor.My frustration in this area grows with each adjustment in my asset allocation.

Lol. Swimming too!!

Good day gents, any chance folks could post the Times of recent interviewees/poolies? I'm just trying to get an idea of the current competitive quals. I'm fairly "low time" at over 3k but know a fellow or two that was able to snag the interview with those times albeit about 2yrs ago. Thanks.

-2263

Hey flyboy thanks for the reply.
I took the assessment test on November 19th and still waiting for an invite to interview. Obviously I was hoping to hear something by now. I'm just trying to be patient.

How long after you received the email did you take the test?

I feel your pain man, been waiting since Sept. Hopefully the calls will come soon! Was on a trip and took the test 2 days later.

Gentlemen,

It may be appropriate to write a polite email if you have been waiting for a call (after you took the technical evaluation test) for the face-to-face interview.

However, the interviews, and really the entire process takes a back seat to the very busy peak-season flying that Atlas 747s do. Please be patient and we have it on good authority that the entire process will resume with fervor when the baby new year is very young.

Good luck.

I was going to wait to see if I get the call in Jan. If not, I was going to email and make sure I didn't mess something up. Thoughts on that approach?

Don't feel bad puckhead. I took the test in Sept. As well still no call. I called to follow up early Dec. And the lady said she was surprised that they hadn't called me. She was going to resend my stuff to the HR manager to get phone screened. Still no call being patient for the right time. I have a clean record all around and two internal Recs. Don't know what else to do but just wait.:(

I received the email invitation to take the technical evaluation test on Nov. 14th and then took the test on the 19th. Is it possible that scoring 100% on the test is a negative thing?
I have three internal recommendations but I have a background issue from 1999 that I had to disclose on the questionnaire so that could also be the issue.
I have also heard from another line pilot that it'll be early in the new year when the process ramps up again. Staying positive and hoping for a good outcome.
Thanks for the feedback!

Talk about horrible timing! Congress just passed a rewrite of the ERISA rules that allow multiemployer pensions to cut benefits to current retirees. But that could never happen right?

Congress' No-Bailout Pension Plan Is No Solution for Retirees - 1

I have some better advice for you. Stop parrotting that standard line about how to invest during your career.

You want American Airlines retirement? Ask your airline parent how long it's taken American to get to the point where they are today.

While you're at it, go back, read the post and comprehend that the Teamsters DON'T HAVE RETIREMENT PLANS...there are plans that are negotiated that members are in...BUT THE TEAMSTERS DON'T RUN THEM OR HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER THEM.

I won't apologize for the caps since it seems that you can't grasp the point.

You might want to also ask your financial planner dad how actuaries function in relation to a retirement plan. And what the recent drop in the cost of a barrel of crude is doing to the value of 401 (k)'s...

I'll never understand this logic? How long does Atlas have to be in business before they pay their pilots what they're worth? Some of us here think that we are just as capable, valuable, and talented as any other pilots in the industry and should be compensated accordingly. Some of us clearly don't...

I want nothing to do with anything that has TEAMSTERS and my MONEY on the same page!

Lowering the average cost paid per share? That's a great thing, unless you're cashing out today.

How about we let the new ExCo poll the group as to what they want?

Question for the applicants:
When you send in your updated resume/PAQ, do you insert a formal cover letter in the body of the email? Or just a little note saying how glad you'd be to get a call, etc...or nothing at all? I usually include a little email explaining why i sent the update (flight time, new license, etc..) ? Thanks

I did the same, but made the cover a separate document. I also wrote a quick description of what I was updating.

I'd update your stuff early and often. Sounds like HR is pretty swamped.