kronan

No, what I am telling you is that AIM is telling you to not accept a visual if you are going to flounder around in the clouds.

YOUR scenario is how YOU might choose to fly. Personally, if the conditions are marginal, I will never accept a visual. I have in the past, and no doubt will in the future, told ATC that I am unable to accept the visual.

The question is not about non-tower ops. The questions is about whether it is appropriate to fly an IFR MAP after a Visual approach.

FlyerJosh

You guys are really making mountains out of molehills here.

First off, in my 10 years of professional flying, I can count on two hands the number of times that I have gone around in visual conditions at towered airports.

EVERY TIME, tower issued instructions. (As they are required to per FAA Order 7110.65). Those instructions may vary depending on the airport. You might get "make left traffic" at a place like Allentown, PA. On the other hand, you're pretty much guaranteed that you won't get "make closed traffic" at a place like ORD or LAX, even in the middle of the night.

When I fly into a controlled airport in visual conditions, I brief "If we have to go around/missed we will go straight ahead to X feet or as instructed by ATC". I figure once we get established in the climb and cleaned back up, then either ATC will tell us what to do, or ask our intentions.

9/10, they say "fly runway heading, maintain x feet, contact departure".

TonyC

That's cool -- but's let's talk about the 1/10 times, because you want to be legal all of the time, right?


Let's say it's VMC (your words were "visual conditions"), but you are cleared the ILS. Tower clears you to land, but as you near the runway you observe a large animal in the touchdown zone. As you advance the power to reject the landing, you key the microphone to talk to tower. No answer. You start cleaning up the airplane, raising the landing gear, and call the tower again. Still, no answer.


What's the plan now?


Does your answer change if it's nighttime?







.

FlyerJosh

Ok. Let me clarify.

VFR arrival to a towered airport:
Fly straight ahead, request closed traffic:
"Citation 1234, going around, request closed traffic"

Cleared Visual Approach (day or night):
Fly straight ahead to predetermined altitude or as instructed by ATC. I usually plan 3000' agl or the normal altitude that ATC clears me to when I depart the airport. If I can't fly straight ahead due to whatever (terrain, weather, etc), I'm going to notify the tower before turning.
"Citation 1234, going around, unable runway heading, request right turnout."


Cleared for the ILS (regardless of the weather conditions):
Fly the published missed approach or as instructed by ATC.
"Citation 1234, missed approach."

With any of those situations, tower IS going to give you instructions. The reason that I personally brief, is so that I have something in mind in the unlikely event that all of a sudden I lose comms right as I hit the TOGA button.

VFR arrival to a nontowered airport:
Set max thrust, pitch for 45 degrees and roll 180 degrees simultanously, then pull through vertical to line up for an opposite direction arrival.

"XYZ airport traffic, Citation 1234, going around from runway 6- we'll be executing an overhead half cuban eight for an opposite direction arrival to runway 24, full stop, XYZ airport."


Last scenario aside, what you do is EXERCISE common sense and your authority as a PIC to ensure the safe outcome of your flight. Fly like you brief and brief like you train.

mshunter

Comments like this is probably why the avatar says "Position:job hunting"

Kasserine06

I talked to several controllers and received similar answers. All three of them said depending on the airport, they may not want you to enter the pattern. They said they would prefer you to climb and fly the runway heading. By flying over the runway, you should be clear of any traffic, and if you haven’t gotten a hold of tower by the time you get to the other end of the runway, then punch in 7600 because you have a comm. Failure. They said they would then give you instructions to remain in the pattern or go back to approach. Since there is no missed approach procedure for a visual approach, your only choice is to stay in the pattern, but always talk to tower because they may have a different plan for you. If you don’t like the grey area this puts you in, don’t forget, tower will be able to give you pattern instructions before you begin to do any missed approach procedure. The people in the tower are human and they will work with you no matter how annoyed they may sound.

For example, I was up in a tower today and someone did a go around, but instead of making right traffic as they were told, they got confused and turned left. The controller saw and was able to make room in the pattern. He was not too upset with the pilot because he knew the pilot’s mind was prepared to land, but last second, the pilot had to change his mindset completely and start a climb. He said he expects pilots to get behind their aircraft when that happens.

HIFLYR

[quote=rickair7777;544495]At an uncontrolled field you own the airspace while on an IFR flight plan until you cancel (or they locate the wreckage).

This is not correct if the uncontrolled field is VFR then any aircraft established in the traffic pattern has the right of way.

JAHpilot

What are you going to do if you are cleard for a visual appraoch to a runway with no IAP?

rickair7777

[QUOTE=HIFLYR;583768]My comment was in reference to IFR operations and whether you need to contact ATC on a go-around. You do in fact own the airspace as far as ATC is concerned for their IFR traffic separation.