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Published missed or fly the pattern?

Old 12-14-2008, 08:27 PM
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Default Published missed or fly the pattern?

Alright I've been with the regionals now for three years. Flown the Saab, EMJ, CRJ.

I have always briefed my approaches by saying "...And in case of the missed we'll follow the published up to xxx feet, unless otherwise instructed by the tower..."

In the three years I have been here I have never had any captain question me on this. But the captain I am flying with this month questioned my brief.

We were told to expect the visual to the runway. And he questioned my by saying "well since were going to be given the visual then we will climb to traffic pattern altitude and fly the pattern." And I was like well were still on an IFR flight plan. When were given the visual they don't say IFR canceled, squak 1200, contact tower.

So this is my question...: If your on an IFR flight plan(as all 121 carriers are) and your given a visual approach, and you go missed, does ATC expect you to follow the published cuz ur still on an IFR flight plan, or do they expect you to climb to TPA and fly a normal box pattern? I say you gotta follow the published, but what do you guys say? Also were in the FAR's does it substantiate your thoughts? Thanks! I wanna get hard FAR proof to show my captain he is wrong.

(Oh, after re reading this. When I say missed approach I mean you have to go around for some reason, but its completely visual conditions)
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:36 PM
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Hi!

If you're flying an approach and the airport is IMC, you will fly the missed.

If the airport is VMC, you will fly the pattern.

We brief, if a visual, I will remain in the pattern with tower.

I have been sent around twice by the tower in VMC. They told/expected us to fly the traffic pattern.

Regardless, you WILL tell tower you're going around, and then follow instructions.

And, if you're flying a visual to an uncontrolled field, ATC wants you to cancel IFR, and then they will tell U to squawk 1200.

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Old 12-14-2008, 09:27 PM
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Most visual approaches are not charted, so they do not have a published missed. If you are doing an ILS to a visual, the ILS published missed would probably be safe, but if it's severe clear you have no idea what other traffic issues exist. You cannot assume that you can safely do the missed for the ILS, BC, LOC, or VOR for that runway.

Fly straight out (terrain permitting) and talk to tower. If you go lost comms, fly the most sensible pattern and try to get comms back (look for light gun signals).
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:05 PM
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If the airport is VMC, you will fly the pattern.

i agree with that statement. im curious as to why you are worried about it if you are vfr on an ifr flight plan. personally i would follow the captains instructions unless hes endangering your life. why do you want to fly the missed approach rather than tpa anyway. im not trying to be threatening im just curious so i can learn for future reference when i get into a career
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by normajean21
why do you want to fly the missed approach rather than tpa anyway. im not trying to be threatening im just curious so i can learn for future reference when i get into a career
Because the entire missed is pre-programmed into the FMS. After pressing the TOGA buttons the advancing the thrust levers forward, all you have to do is hit the nav button and watch it follow the magenta lines. Its just a lot easier thats all.
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by atpcliff

I have been sent around twice by the tower in VMC. They told/expected us to fly the traffic pattern.
I too have been sent around by the tower in VMC, albeit only once. And the towers response was to fly the pattern at 3000'. But here is the problem I have with that. Patterns can be found on VFR Terminals/Sectionals or the the AFD. But we as airline pilots do not have access to either of those. So... At airports that have special noise abadment procedures, or airports that only use left/left traffic, or airports that have non standard patterns or any of that stuff, how are we supposed to know what is correct in the absence of tower instructions.

Because of this I always brief my ILS to visuals, or visuals backed up by the ILS, to do the published missed.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by caboarder2001
Because of this I always brief my ILS to visuals, or visuals backed up by the ILS, to do the published missed.
Just take note that if you are flying a visual approach and backing it up with a ILS, the controllers have no idea you going to use the ILS Missed (or VOR, NDB, or GPS missed for that matter) if you have to go around. Expect to make some phone calls if you make a immediate left turn towards a holding pattern when they expect you to fly right traffic around the pattern.
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Old 12-15-2008, 01:02 AM
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When you are reading up on the FARs, please take a quick look at a book on the English language. If we are going to claim that we are a group of professionals, we should at least have a basic grasp of the language. If you sound as intelligent as you type, I would probably question everything you tell me as a captain.
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by milky
When you are reading up on the FARs, please take a quick look at a book on the English language. If we are going to claim that we are a group of professionals, we should at least have a basic grasp of the language. If you sound as intelligent as you type, I would probably question everything you tell me as a captain.
Tha bak of my certifakat sez english proficient butt sumtimes i wunder
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Old 12-15-2008, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by BoredwLife
Expect to make some phone calls if you make a immediate left turn towards a holding pattern when they expect you to fly right traffic around the pattern.
This is my exact problem. How do I know that its a right pattern? Maybe its a left pattern? Maybe you have to extend upwind to a certain point before turning cross wind? We dont have any info at all from out Jepps to indicate what a VFR pattern is at the airport.
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