Ramp Check Question
03-05-2009, 04:09 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by okonokos
the FAA is old school, and they have to make a sacrificial lamb of someone every now and then.
03-05-2009, 08:00 AM
#12
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So she tells me that her attorney called the FSDO and that he was told that they have generated a letter asking for her to submit a statement regarding he incident. The attorney said he will respond to the letter and send a copy of the NASA strip (once she gets it back)form along with it. He felt that this was not going to be a "slap on the wrist" type of thing. He further said that they would not talk with him regarding the communication to the FBO regarding the ramp check.
He (the attorney) said he was a little unsure as to how the NASA form was going to play in this either. They could argue that it was intentional as she is supposed to ensure she has her documents prior to flight. But that they would lose this arguement in a hearing as it is a stretch to say that an airmen would invest all that they do financially into their licenses and ratings only to "intentionally" violate the FAR's by not carrying her medical.
As more progress is made I will update.
He (the attorney) said he was a little unsure as to how the NASA form was going to play in this either. They could argue that it was intentional as she is supposed to ensure she has her documents prior to flight. But that they would lose this arguement in a hearing as it is a stretch to say that an airmen would invest all that they do financially into their licenses and ratings only to "intentionally" violate the FAR's by not carrying her medical.
As more progress is made I will update.
03-05-2009, 01:07 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by okonokos
You are partially incorrect and you contradict yourself in paragraphs 1 and 2.
Not only is it possible for the FAA to take certificate action against said offender, the probability is that the offender will get a letter of reprimand from the FAA placed in her regional file (for 2 years), and may face a suspension of her certificates. If she has any other incidents AT ALL, she is probably looking at a suspension from the regional director of whatever FSDO is in charge of the area or operation.
If she could not prove that she had her medical certificate on her at the time of the inspection, she is in violation of an FAR. The FAA does not take violation of FAR's lightly, no matter how silly they seem to you. Make no mistake, as silly as it sounds in the internet/database era, the FAA is old school, and they have to make a sacrificial lamb of someone every now and then.
Not only is it possible for the FAA to take certificate action against said offender, the probability is that the offender will get a letter of reprimand from the FAA placed in her regional file (for 2 years), and may face a suspension of her certificates. If she has any other incidents AT ALL, she is probably looking at a suspension from the regional director of whatever FSDO is in charge of the area or operation.
If she could not prove that she had her medical certificate on her at the time of the inspection, she is in violation of an FAR. The FAA does not take violation of FAR's lightly, no matter how silly they seem to you. Make no mistake, as silly as it sounds in the internet/database era, the FAA is old school, and they have to make a sacrificial lamb of someone every now and then.
1st. Could an airman end up with certificate action (suspension) out of this? absolutely.
2nd. Will an airman end up with certificate action? Depends. was the conduct intentional? is it systemic with this person? there are a number of factors that goes into the decision process as you know. In the described scenario, without all the available info, one could make the assumption that the conduct was not intentional and all else being equal the outcome would be administrative in nature.
Again, the NASA form wont matter in this case as the Inspector was there to witness the non-compliance. Looks like the attorney recognizes this as well.
03-05-2009, 04:06 PM
#14
Snakes & Nape
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Originally Posted by okonokos
If she could not prove that she had her medical certificate on her at the time of the inspection, she is in violation of an FAR. The FAA does not take violation of FAR's lightly, no matter how silly they seem to you. Make no mistake, as silly as it sounds in the internet/database era, the FAA is old school, and they have to make a sacrificial lamb of someone every now and then.
First of all, I have not been admitted to the bar....at least "the legal bar Association". The other one, I'm a member in good standing of.
By not producing a medical when requested, an FAR violation has been committed. Okonokos is correct. What the FSDO Chief and this inspector want to do with this incident is up to them.
The NASA report is a waste of time as this is an administrative action that occured during a ramp check. The provisions of the NASA reporting system do not apply in this case.
Just my two cents, devalued to $ .000023981 on today's market.
Now, to the real bar !!
G'Day Mates
03-10-2009, 03:24 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
My guess is that the FAA might not pursue this beyond a stern lecture...obviously she had a held a valid medical, and it's reasonable to assume that she did in fact have it in her possession at the time of the incident.
But the FAR's require you to produce your license (and I assume your medical) on request, so her failure to produce it for whatever reason is a technical violation. If the Fed is a real big jerk, he might go forward with it.
A nasa form will probably not help...people have been violated for not having charts and manuals updated, and that has been held to be intentional on the premise that you have plenty of time to get your gear organized before coming to work.
Get legal advice, and hope for the best. With an attorney's concurrence you might just go to the FSDO, hat in hand, and try to talk them into dropping the whole thing.
But the FAR's require you to produce your license (and I assume your medical) on request, so her failure to produce it for whatever reason is a technical violation. If the Fed is a real big jerk, he might go forward with it.
A nasa form will probably not help...people have been violated for not having charts and manuals updated, and that has been held to be intentional on the premise that you have plenty of time to get your gear organized before coming to work.
Get legal advice, and hope for the best. With an attorney's concurrence you might just go to the FSDO, hat in hand, and try to talk them into dropping the whole thing.
I have heard that all they can ask for at the present time is Govt. Issued Photo ID, Pilot's license, Medical, Airworthiness cert, and AC registration. In fact it I know it does say that the inspector must compliment the pilot if there are no problems. Now if there was an issue with center I could see them coming for charts...but how would they know what charts you needed before you took off. Do you legally have to tell them where you are going? Where you have been?
03-10-2009, 03:31 PM
#16
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As far as the whole situation...I would try and claim that the medical got tossed around during turbulence... and you eventually found it, and of course it doesnt help when you have an FAA inspector making you nervous, could that be an out???
03-10-2009, 05:19 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by CaptainTeezy
I have heard that all they can ask for at the present time is Govt. Issued Photo ID, Pilot's license, Medical, Airworthiness cert, and AC registration. In fact it I know it does say that the inspector must compliment the pilot if there are no problems. Now if there was an issue with center I could see them coming for charts...but how would they know what charts you needed before you took off. Do you legally have to tell them where you are going? Where you have been?
But I have seen feds look at POH/AFM's onboard GA aircraft.
03-10-2009, 06:56 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
Not sure if a fed could ask a GA pilot for his charts without there having been an incident.
03-11-2009, 08:31 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by NoyGonnaDoIt
They can. In fact, even though current charts is not a regulatory requirement for Part 91 (except for subpart F and K) it's part of the official guidance for even plain vanilla Part 91 ramp checks under FAA Order 8900.1 (Flight Standards Information Management System). It can be found in Chapter 1, Section 4, Para. 6-101(F).
03-11-2009, 06:30 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by CaptainTeezy
So if they do check...what are they checking for...and can they violate you under 91?
My WAG is this: Although we usually think of ramp checks as a simple surveillance activity - just checking up - they are also done in the event that a unsafe operation is brought to the attention of an inspector. All the inspector guidance is doing is setting up a standard and consistent procedure for the inspectors to follow whatever the reason.
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