What's wrong with logging SIC time?

Reply Subscribe

Page 3 of 4

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

09-18-2011 | 07:59 AM

#21

zildjian_zach

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 161

Likes: 0

From: Forever commuting

You're going to get a complex/HP endorsement eventually, right? So... why not get that now and log the safety pilot time as legit PIC?

09-20-2011 | 08:02 AM

#22

Duksrule

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 650

Likes: 0

I am asking this because I am not a CFI and don't know the answer and not trying to be a smart ars.

How do CFIs log time? For example you have a student with a private that signs for the plane at the FBO and is the person at the controls. The instructor is say.... doing a BFR or refresher training or something. Something that wouldn't require them to be in the aircraft and the student could be flying alone.

I know the student would be the PIC because they signed for the A/C and also are the one at the controls. What does the CFI log? Is dual given a form of PIC when you are a CFI?

09-20-2011 | 08:04 AM

#23

DirectTo

Line Holder

Joined: May 2011

Posts: 1,016

Likes: 27

From: 737 CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duksrule

I know the student would be the PIC because they signed for the A/C and also are the one at the controls. What does the CFI log? Is dual given a form of PIC when you are a CFI?

Anytime you're giving instruction you are logging PIC (at least no exceptions jump out to me). The student is flying, logging PIC (sole manipulator), but as CFI you're technically responsible for the airplane and the flight, and you're also qualified to log PIC.

Now, on a lot of airline apps they look as dual given as seperate from 'regular' PIC, but that's a different matter.

09-20-2011 | 11:54 AM

#24

USMCFLYR

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Mar 2008

Posts: 13,843

Likes: 1

From: FAA 'Flight Check'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duksrule

I am asking this because I am not a CFI and don't know the answer and not trying to be a smart ars.

How do CFIs log time? For example you have a student with a private that signs for the plane at the FBO and is the person at the controls. The instructor is say.... doing a BFR or refresher training or something. Something that wouldn't require them to be in the aircraft and the student could be flying alone.

I know the student would be the PIC because they signed for the A/C and also are the one at the controls. What does the CFI log? Is dual given a form of PIC when you are a CFI?

But you ARE required to be there for this type of flying.
If the CFI isn't there - then the training isn't being conducted.

USMCFLYR

09-20-2011 | 12:21 PM

#25

Duksrule

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Oct 2006

Posts: 650

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMCFLYR

But you ARE required to be there for this type of flying.
If the CFI isn't there - then the training isn't being conducted.

USMCFLYR

Using this reasoning, the Safety Pilot is requireded to be there then because without a safety pilot no one is under the hood. Correct?

09-21-2011 | 04:47 AM

#26

NoyGonnaDoIt

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Nov 2008

Posts: 826

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duksrule

I am asking this because I am not a CFI and don't know the answer and not trying to be a smart ars.

How do CFIs log time?

Like all logging flight time questions, your starting point is FAR 61.51.

CFIs log PIC when giving instruction under 61.51(e)(3).

Yep, it really is that simple. Don't have to talk about being "required" or "being responsible" or any of the other irrelevant things that sound nice as a reason. Just a rule that tells you when you can log time.

09-21-2011 | 01:46 PM

#27

USMCFLYR

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Mar 2008

Posts: 13,843

Likes: 1

From: FAA 'Flight Check'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duksrule

Using this reasoning, the Safety Pilot is requireded to be there then because without a safety pilot no one is under the hood. Correct?

That is my understanding, but I've never done the safety pilot thing or looked into it much except for reading threads on this board.
There are MANY dedicated threads on here though dealing with the safety Pilot issue.

USMCFLYR

09-21-2011 | 04:25 PM

#28

rickair7777

Prime Minister/Moderator

Joined: Jan 2006

Posts: 45,172

Likes: 805

From: Engines Turn or People Swim

The logic is that IMC is a condition of flight (like night) so it can be logged by all pilot crewmembers.

Approaches and landings are held to different standards.

09-21-2011 | 08:02 PM

#29

NoyGonnaDoIt

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Nov 2008

Posts: 826

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777

The logic is that IMC is a condition of flight (like night) so it can be logged by all pilot crewmembers.

Approaches and landings are held to different standards.

Also as specified in the written rules (although the approaches are not as clear as the ladnings)

04-19-2014 | 09:16 PM

#30

KC JODA

Line Holder

Joined: Feb 2011

Posts: 54

Likes: 0

From: Fixed Wing SIC

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777

Logging SIC at a 135 operation should be completely acceptable to airline employers assuming that the legs were 135 (not 91), the 135 OPSPEC authorizes it, and you had the required training, checkrides, and currency.

Where people get in trouble is when all of those conditions are not met.

I just had an interview for a regional and the interviews not only frowned upon my nearly 300 hours of SIC in a C208 for a 135 EAS provider of SCHEDULED service, he told me I couldn’t count it towards my total time and was now LESS than 1400TT…with it, I was at 1640.

Talk about a kick in the teeth…

The FSDO said I CAN count it, as long as I didn’t engage the autopilot…

…screw this industry with all the different interpretations…

It’s like the bible…EVERYBODY has a different translation.