Can I get an SIC type rating grandfathered?
06-18-2012, 09:58 AM
#1
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Can I get an SIC type rating grandfathered?
Hi, I've been out of the regional airline business for a while, but flew CRJ-200s from 2004 to 2006, before the FAA required the FO to have an SIC type rating. I left the company before upgrading so I did not receive a type rating on that aircraft. I know I can have certain military aircraft typed on my civilian certificate with just showing training documentation and certification, but does the same apply with part 121 training? I've obtained a training summary from this previous airline showing I was qualified to operate that aircraft as an FO for this carrier. So can walk that into the FSDO and have them write me a CRJ SIC-only type rating. That way I can say I was typed in that airframe.
Last edited by captnmo; 06-18-2012 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Additional information.
06-18-2012, 01:37 PM
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The FAA does not require you to hold a SIC type rating. It's only required for international ops so foreign CAAs can see you have been trained on the aircraft. And you only have a 13 month window from the completion of training to apply.
§ 61.55 Second-in-command qualifications.
...
(d) A person may receive a second-in-command pilot type rating for an aircraft after satisfactorily completing the second-in-command familiarization training requirements under paragraph (b) of this section in that type of aircraft provided the training was completed within the 12 calendar months before the month of application for the SIC pilot type rating.
Most people would say you're stretching it to say you're typed in the aircraft holding a SIC type.
§ 61.55 Second-in-command qualifications.
...
(d) A person may receive a second-in-command pilot type rating for an aircraft after satisfactorily completing the second-in-command familiarization training requirements under paragraph (b) of this section in that type of aircraft provided the training was completed within the 12 calendar months before the month of application for the SIC pilot type rating.
Most people would say you're stretching it to say you're typed in the aircraft holding a SIC type.
06-19-2012, 07:50 AM
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So the 12 month requirement pretty much won't allow it. I just spoke with an inspector at the FSDO about getting my S-70 (Blackhawk) type rating and he said just bring in my records from 2006 Army Flight School and I'll have the type rating issued right there. I wonder why the SIC is so different when concerning the CRJ?
06-19-2012, 10:48 AM
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Are you current in the S-70? Because the F-SIMS says it doesn't matter when you did the initial training but you need to have 10 hours PIC in the last 12 months.
6) Official military documents are required as evidence of the applicant’s pilot-in-command (PIC) experience. The applicant as PIC must have flown the PIC flight time. An applicant’s flight time as a copilot or other flightcrew member is not acceptable to establish qualifications as PIC.
a) ...
b) To obtain a type rating, an applicant must be able to show successful completion of a military PIC flight check in the preceding 12 months. Otherwise, the applicant must have a minimum of 10 hours as PIC in that type of aircraft in the past 12 months and present evidence of a previously passed military PIC flight check.
6) Official military documents are required as evidence of the applicant’s pilot-in-command (PIC) experience. The applicant as PIC must have flown the PIC flight time. An applicant’s flight time as a copilot or other flightcrew member is not acceptable to establish qualifications as PIC.
a) ...
b) To obtain a type rating, an applicant must be able to show successful completion of a military PIC flight check in the preceding 12 months. Otherwise, the applicant must have a minimum of 10 hours as PIC in that type of aircraft in the past 12 months and present evidence of a previously passed military PIC flight check.
06-19-2012, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Twin Wasp
Are you current in the S-70? Because the F-SIMS says it doesn't matter when you did the initial training but you need to have 10 hours PIC in the last 12 months.
6) Official military documents are required as evidence of the applicant’s pilot-in-command (PIC) experience. The applicant as PIC must have flown the PIC flight time. An applicant’s flight time as a copilot or other flightcrew member is not acceptable to establish qualifications as PIC.
a) ...
b) To obtain a type rating, an applicant must be able to show successful completion of a military PIC flight check in the preceding 12 months. Otherwise, the applicant must have a minimum of 10 hours as PIC in that type of aircraft in the past 12 months and present evidence of a previously passed military PIC flight check.
6) Official military documents are required as evidence of the applicant’s pilot-in-command (PIC) experience. The applicant as PIC must have flown the PIC flight time. An applicant’s flight time as a copilot or other flightcrew member is not acceptable to establish qualifications as PIC.
a) ...
b) To obtain a type rating, an applicant must be able to show successful completion of a military PIC flight check in the preceding 12 months. Otherwise, the applicant must have a minimum of 10 hours as PIC in that type of aircraft in the past 12 months and present evidence of a previously passed military PIC flight check.
Believe it not the FSIMS doesn't always keep up with the regs.
No more 12 month requirement...
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:
06-19-2012, 05:54 PM
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BTW, running into this "problem" lately.
Pilots are going through the training for SIC, ALL in the sim.(FSI/CAE/SimuFlite)
Then thinking they can come in and get a SIC TYPE. Check the regs. If this is your initial SIC in the type, and ALL your training was done in the sim, you MUST have 1 TO/ LDG in the actual aircraft....
Pilots are going through the training for SIC, ALL in the sim.(FSI/CAE/SimuFlite)
Then thinking they can come in and get a SIC TYPE. Check the regs. If this is your initial SIC in the type, and ALL your training was done in the sim, you MUST have 1 TO/ LDG in the actual aircraft....
06-19-2012, 08:27 PM
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I'm going to have to spend more time in the Federal Register, the change was effective Oct 09!
Which now does beg Captnmo's question. The FAA explained in dropping the 12 month military time limit that a pilot is not qualified to to operate an aircraft just because something is on their certificate. I'll have to see if I can find the reason for the limit on the SIC type.
Which now does beg Captnmo's question. The FAA explained in dropping the 12 month military time limit that a pilot is not qualified to to operate an aircraft just because something is on their certificate. I'll have to see if I can find the reason for the limit on the SIC type.
06-20-2012, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Short Bus Drive
BTW, running into this "problem" lately.
Pilots are going through the training for SIC, ALL in the sim.(FSI/CAE/SimuFlite)
Then thinking they can come in and get a SIC TYPE. Check the regs. If this is your initial SIC in the type, and ALL your training was done in the sim, you MUST have 1 TO/ LDG in the actual aircraft....
Pilots are going through the training for SIC, ALL in the sim.(FSI/CAE/SimuFlite)
Then thinking they can come in and get a SIC TYPE. Check the regs. If this is your initial SIC in the type, and ALL your training was done in the sim, you MUST have 1 TO/ LDG in the actual aircraft....
Nice avatar by the way =)
06-20-2012, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by captnmo
And also been a while since I've flown the Blackhawk and I explained this to the inspector. He didn't seem to think it's a problem, or he wasn't paying attention to what I was saying.
The SIC is. Need to have done it in the past 12 months.
I don't agree with it, but...
Then again, not every inspector follows the "guidance"...
An ex military instructor (no matter how long ago) can convert to an FAA instructor any time, yet if I don't renew my CFI within two years, I have to go through a whole practical...?
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