HIFLYR

At my airline we do have F/O sim check airmen as you call them. To be one you have to go thru the Captains course all the way thru IOE and the Final line check and activated. You are then required to pass a line check in the left seat every year and CQ check ride in the sim as a Captain. They are restricted by The company to only do CMV 1&2 currently but are signed by the FAA to do CLOE's also. They fly the line as FOs but can fly in the left seat if flying with another dual seat qualified pilot usually a LCA. They cannot make a Captain that requies a different FAA sign off.

rickair7777

In the sense of this discussion they are not FOs, they are captains in every regulatory aspect. Where they happen to fall on the seniority list and what they get paid is irrelevant to the FAA.

HIFLYR

Just answered a question as to FOs as sim check guys and yes sometimes they are.

Airhoss

Phantom, your statement annotated in red is incorrect. Even under the old UAL system we had Type B PI's. Those are PI's who are examiner qualified. I was a type B PI and I can assure you that I have given multiple hundreds of "check rides" as in MV's for both trasition and PC crews and hundreds of transition PV's and hundreds of day 1 and day 2 PC's as well; See below.


Gupboy,

In regards to the airline I fly for and legally speaking are absolutely 100% incorrect in your statement above.

I was a 777 PI for 6 years and am currently back in the building as a 76T/756 FI/E ( same thing different name now, as a Type B, PI).

An FI/E (Flight Instructor/Evaluator) can in fact give a PC and they do in fact administer PV's and MV's and requal 1,2,3 and landing requal. The ONLY check rides we can't administer by company rules are LOE's and type rides.

But as a matter of fact once you are Type B (FI/E, or check airmen qualified) the FAA considers you a designated examiner on that airplane. And in fact you are perfectly legal to administer type rides on that airplane type and I have done so for several airlines on a contract basis.

The FAA, as mentioned previously does not care what your seniority can hold at your airline. Once you are type rated you are legal to act as PIC and once you go through the proper training and take an FAA administered examiner's check ride you are legal to instruct and give type ratings on your specific airframe. It generally takes a new flight instructor about 18 months of instructing to become a full MV qualified examiner.

I hope this clears up the confusion a bit.

Southerner

I'm a sim check airman at my company. I'm a line FO, but I've been through the upgrade sim training and type ride. I have not done upgrade IOE and I cannot fly in the left seat in the aircraft, though I can sit left seat for a sim event. (Seat support.)

So yes, it does happen. It actually seems fairly common.

pilatusguy

Been a long time since I was on here, and sorry to resurrect an old thread. But I thought I'd add some closure to this since I just re-read all this.

The personnel in question were only given a PC in the left seat. They did not go through the upgrade training program, neither upgrade ground school nor the upgrade simulator training. Just a normal PC, but given with them in the left seat. They were not given any OE or line training in the left seat either. I did consult with FAA legal about this, starting with an regional FAA legal office, and finally ending with the head FAA legal office in DC. After about six month of investigation, the FAA responded with: the intent of FAR 121.411/121.412 is that simulator instructors and simulator check airmen fully complete an airline's upgrade training program, and be fully qualified as captains. However the FAA does grant significant leeway to the operator's individual POI and their discretion about waiving certain aspects of the regulation in order to qualify people as instructors and check airmen. In short, "these are the rules, but since we made the rules, we can bend the rules".