Notice from the FAA
06-02-2014, 03:19 PM
#1
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 33
Notice from the FAA
Long story, so I'll try to get right to the point...
Flew in right seat of jet. Jet had hot start resulting in substantial damage. The pilot (operator) in the left seat put me on his FORM 6120 in the list with the other passengers however, next to my name he checked the box "crew" and also checked the box "non-revenue".
I got a call from that pilot who said the NTSB wants me to fill out page 8 of the 6120 Form which is for Crew Members. I told him I'd rather keep my pilot information confidential since it wasn't relevant.
I get an e-mail from the NTSB stating that they "Request" that I fill out page 8 of form 6120 "in accordance with the requirements of 49 U.S.C. Part 830.5 and 830.15" and provide an explanation of what happened. I replied that those requirements were for crewmembers and operators of which I am neither.
I then get a certified mail letter requesting that I present to the FSDO my medical, my commercial certificate and my logbook for inspection according to 14 CFR 61.3(L) & 61.51(a) within 5 days.
Question:
Do they have authority under 61.3(L) & 61.51(a) to demand this inspection given that I am a passenger on a plane who just happens to have a certificate?
If you have any thoughts, please don't hesitate to post them. All input is welcomed.
thnx in advance.
Flew in right seat of jet. Jet had hot start resulting in substantial damage. The pilot (operator) in the left seat put me on his FORM 6120 in the list with the other passengers however, next to my name he checked the box "crew" and also checked the box "non-revenue".
I got a call from that pilot who said the NTSB wants me to fill out page 8 of the 6120 Form which is for Crew Members. I told him I'd rather keep my pilot information confidential since it wasn't relevant.
I get an e-mail from the NTSB stating that they "Request" that I fill out page 8 of form 6120 "in accordance with the requirements of 49 U.S.C. Part 830.5 and 830.15" and provide an explanation of what happened. I replied that those requirements were for crewmembers and operators of which I am neither.
I then get a certified mail letter requesting that I present to the FSDO my medical, my commercial certificate and my logbook for inspection according to 14 CFR 61.3(L) & 61.51(a) within 5 days.
Question:
Do they have authority under 61.3(L) & 61.51(a) to demand this inspection given that I am a passenger on a plane who just happens to have a certificate?
If you have any thoughts, please don't hesitate to post them. All input is welcomed.
thnx in advance.
06-02-2014, 03:33 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: JAFO- First Observer
Posts: 997
The short answer is Yes, NTSB and FAA do have the authority to request that you comply with federal law. Title 49 of the United States Code is where the NTSB and FAA get their authority from. I would highly recommend you get an attorney ASAP and comply with the requests. The NTSB investigates aircraft accidents to determine probable cause. The FAA investigates to determine if there were any non compliance with 14 CFR.
The company/owner of the aircraft is probably not very happy either.
Welcome to the world of LIABILITY in aviation....
If you were not acting or serving as the PIC or a Required Flight Crewmember, this will help as the PIC is ultimately responsible.
You probably should not provide further details on a public forum, but be prepared for an interview with questions like:
What type of Aircraft was it? Did it require two pilots? What was the "agreement" (verbal or written) between you and the company when you occupied the right seat? Was the operation Part 91 or 135? All of these questions will be asked...
Sorry to hear about this. I would not ignore these requests as things could get ugly and serious in short order. No Joke!
The company/owner of the aircraft is probably not very happy either.
Welcome to the world of LIABILITY in aviation....
If you were not acting or serving as the PIC or a Required Flight Crewmember, this will help as the PIC is ultimately responsible.
You probably should not provide further details on a public forum, but be prepared for an interview with questions like:
What type of Aircraft was it? Did it require two pilots? What was the "agreement" (verbal or written) between you and the company when you occupied the right seat? Was the operation Part 91 or 135? All of these questions will be asked...
Sorry to hear about this. I would not ignore these requests as things could get ugly and serious in short order. No Joke!
06-02-2014, 03:41 PM
#3
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 33
You may have misread my question...
"Do they have authority under 61.3(L) & 61.51(a) to demand this inspection given that I am a passenger on a plane who just happens to have a certificate?"
In other words, do they have such authority over passengers? Could they draw a certificate out of the hat and make that pilot produce his logbook without specific cause?
"Do they have authority under 61.3(L) & 61.51(a) to demand this inspection given that I am a passenger on a plane who just happens to have a certificate?"
In other words, do they have such authority over passengers? Could they draw a certificate out of the hat and make that pilot produce his logbook without specific cause?
06-02-2014, 04:04 PM
#4
Flies With The Hat On
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Right of the Left Seat
Posts: 1,339
What is your liability here? What do you stand lose? Could the PIC claim that you physically interfered with her/him performing procedures? I would consider retaining an aviation lawyer to respond to the NTSB request. The NTSB has limitless resources compared to you.
There is likely a method for which you can request and receive an extension.
Remember, you can always "not be at home" when certified mail is delivered.
There is likely a method for which you can request and receive an extension.
Remember, you can always "not be at home" when certified mail is delivered.
06-02-2014, 04:08 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 113
Notice from the FAA
Yes,because you have a pilot certificate they can request to inspect it if they want to. (61.3 L)
And yes 61.51 for the logbook. A "reasonable request" could be many things. I'd say send it In. If they send you a letter of investigation I'd see what it is for and get yourself a lawyer if need be.
And yes 61.51 for the logbook. A "reasonable request" could be many things. I'd say send it In. If they send you a letter of investigation I'd see what it is for and get yourself a lawyer if need be.
06-02-2014, 04:10 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 113
Notice from the FAA
At this point all it seems like is they wanna see credentials. If you haven't got a LOA you are not under investigation.
06-02-2014, 04:20 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Pitot heat, what's to eat?
Posts: 392
You may have misread my question...
"Do they have authority under 61.3(L) & 61.51(a) to demand this inspection given that I am a passenger on a plane who just happens to have a certificate?"
In other words, do they have such authority over passengers? Could they draw a certificate out of the hat and make that pilot produce his logbook without specific cause?
"Do they have authority under 61.3(L) & 61.51(a) to demand this inspection given that I am a passenger on a plane who just happens to have a certificate?"
In other words, do they have such authority over passengers? Could they draw a certificate out of the hat and make that pilot produce his logbook without specific cause?
(l) Inspection of certificate. Each person who holds an airman certificate, medical certificate, authorization, or license required by this part must present it and their photo identification as described in paragraph (a)(2) of this section for inspection upon a request from:
(1) The Administrator;
(2) An authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board; or
(3) Any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.
(4) An authorized representative of the Transportation Security Administration.
(1) The Administrator;
(2) An authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board; or
(3) Any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.
(4) An authorized representative of the Transportation Security Administration.
06-02-2014, 04:23 PM
#8
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 33
This is where I begin to see a distinct line in the law.
A reasonable request to me would be more like:
Both pilots' logbooks of flight xyz are being checked to ensure their recency and qualifications are in compliance however, since I am not a crewmember requiring any compliance with regulations, would it be reasonable for them to demand my logbook. How is it relevant?
A reasonable request to me would be more like:
Both pilots' logbooks of flight xyz are being checked to ensure their recency and qualifications are in compliance however, since I am not a crewmember requiring any compliance with regulations, would it be reasonable for them to demand my logbook. How is it relevant?
06-02-2014, 04:27 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: JAFO- First Observer
Posts: 997
I did not mis-read your post. It matters not whether you were a passenger or flight crewmember. Both agencies can investigate anyone involved, whether they hold a certificate or not.
From what you have stated, it does appear that you are being "thrown under the bus".
I hope for your sake that the operation only required one pilot, and that you were indeed just a passenger...
G/L
From what you have stated, it does appear that you are being "thrown under the bus".
I hope for your sake that the operation only required one pilot, and that you were indeed just a passenger...
G/L
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