Notices

[Breeze] Airways

Old 02-08-2020, 05:24 AM
  #531  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,205
Default

Originally Posted by frizzy View Post
Mods,

Can we move this thread over to the regional side? Regional aircraft and regional rates
Better move the AA forum to the regional side too because they also fly them.
CBreezy is offline  
Old 02-08-2020, 05:33 AM
  #532  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: DHC-8 CA
Posts: 462
Default

Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER View Post
Can you educate yourself a little more about the size and range of those two aircraft (at least the A220)?

It irks me to no end to fly with and talk to pilots that deem both the E-190/195 and A220 as “RJs” just because they’re from the same manufacturer that started out their jet product line with 50 seat RJs.

Get out of that mentality or else management will gladly pay you RJ rates on them when in reality they’re replacement aircraft for small narrowbody MAINLINE aircraft.
THIS!

filler
Theaveragejoker is offline  
Old 02-08-2020, 05:45 AM
  #533  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 531
Default

Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER View Post
Can you educate yourself a little more about the size and range of those two aircraft (at least the A220)?

It irks me to no end to fly with and talk to pilots that deem both the E-190/195 and A220 as “RJs” just because they’re from the same manufacturer that started out their jet product line with 50 seat RJs.

Get out of that mentality or else management will gladly pay you RJ rates on them when in reality they’re replacement aircraft for small narrowbody MAINLINE aircraft.
I think he was being facetious, because given the pay rates, it does belong in the regional category.
TimetoClimb is online now  
Old 02-08-2020, 05:50 AM
  #534  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 531
Default

Originally Posted by jamesholzhauer View Post
It’s not like a 74-seat airplane that’s a scope airplane like the 175. It’s a fine airplane, but it’s not optimally sized for CASM because their pilots make the same, their maintenance is the same. Their capital cost isn’t more, burns a little less fuel because it’s lighter but they have basically 50 less seats than we do. That allows us to charge lower fares and stimulate the market.”

I assume he’s talking about this.

It is a disingenuous statement. Implying that breeze's competitive advantage is atleast partly provided by pilots accepting sub par wages.
TimetoClimb is online now  
Old 02-08-2020, 06:01 AM
  #535  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Left
Posts: 1,811
Default

Nobody should expect legacy level wages at a start-up. Not surprising. That said, pay rates better climb with success if you want to retain your people.

I would expect bases in cheaper, non-hub secondary cities that might make it easier for some people to afford the lower starting rates.
David Puddy is offline  
Old 02-08-2020, 06:14 AM
  #536  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 313
Default

I have no clue who would go to a startup like this. With the legacies and proven LCC’s hiring like crazy it seems like an unnecessary risk for most people.

Not exactly the best time to be starting an airline with subpar wages.
Cefiro is offline  
Old 02-08-2020, 07:40 AM
  #537  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 541
Default

Originally Posted by badflaps View Post
Well, blue is the right color for BYU.
Meh, it looks more like Aggie Blue.
SFA320 is offline  
Old 02-08-2020, 07:40 AM
  #538  
Gets Weekends Off
 
SilentLurker's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Position: FO
Posts: 793
Default

Originally Posted by Cefiro View Post
I have no clue who would go to a startup like this. With the legacies and proven LCC’s hiring like crazy it seems like an unnecessary risk for most people.



Not exactly the best time to be starting an airline with subpar wages.


Quality pilots will apply. Initial cadre will do very well long term. No union representation will have its advantages for now. So If contacted or recruited, salary + other Incentives offered will be hard to pass up.

Plenty of Mesa, Compass, and othe regional pilots have (E170-E195) type rating, they will apply to Breeze.

In all seriousness Breeze will attract quality pilots for the most part, plenty in this 2020 hiring wave, will be E Z. Pilot shortage is a myth! Breeze will have pilots to select from Regionals, ACMI, LLCs (Allegiant & Sun Country perhaps). Breeze will bring maintenance, support crews, admin staff, and management personnel from Regionals, LLCs/ULLC, ACMI carriers.

Growth opportunity is a powerful hiring tool. First cadre of pilots on a fast growing pilot seniority list are a loyal bunch. Knowing a huge aircraft orders are in the pipeline, a management team with successful startup and growth track records. Breeze is a company that seems to have smart players and reduced risks, and flexibility built into its business model.
SilentLurker is offline  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:12 AM
  #539  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 147
Default

Originally Posted by jamesholzhauer View Post
https://crankyflier.com/2020/02/07/d...oss-the-aisle/

More info here than I’ve seen anywhere else.
Thanks for posting that, most informative link I've seen on Breeze. If I'm reading everything correctly: Breeze will start out with some relatively cheap E-195s acquired from Azul. Then in April 2021, they'll start to get new A-220s.

At a high level, they'll be following Allegiant's model. They'll focus on "under-served" city pairs for scheduled service, along with any other "opportunities" (sports charters, etc). They intend to leverage the unique capabilities of the E-195 and A-220 (longer range, lower fuel consumption, etc). Ostensibly, they'll be leveraging the lower cost of labor that comes from being a start-up.

I was skeptical of the whole "under-served city pair" idea, after all, how many under-served city pairs could be out there (realistically, how many people need to go from Des Moines Iowa to Manhattan Kansas on a daily basis)? However, in the article, Neeleman uses the example of Allegiant starting service from Mesa AZ (in Phoenix), to Provo UT (about an hour south of SLC). And about how they started at one flight a week, and now do seven days a week, sometimes multiple flights a day. Wouldn't have thought there would be enough traffic between the Phoenix and Provo to support those kinds of schedules, but apparently there is.

Neeleman has got the experts working for him (he speaks highly of Lukas Johnson, Breeze Chief Commercial Officer, previously Allegiant Senior VP). He also talks about "if you build it, they will come," regarding under-served city pairs. And perhaps that's right. In my spot outside Chicago, I could see things like connecting skiers to upper Michigan ski resorts and that kind of thing. The article talks about a list of "500 city pairs" they're looking at. So I suppose they know what they're doing.

One other aspect to all of the Breeze/Moxy talk: Neeleman goes on and on about "using technology!" and "we'll have an app!" and "we're the high-tech airline!," etc etc. I suppose it's good to generate buzz, but I can't imagine Breeze will have anything more than an incremental improvement over what the legacies are doing in that regard. For as slow and cumbersome as the legacies are, their on-board apps and customer-facing technology is pretty good. I'm sure they'll end up with some snazzy looking app, but I can't imagine it's going to drive any meaningful advantage over other operators.

Edit to add: Bottom line, it seems like Breeze is following the Allegiant model, but with second-hand E-195s and new A-220s. I wouldn't have thought it could be done profitably, but Neeleman has founded four commercial airlines in his career, and I've founded zero, so I assume he knows what he's doing. Will be interesting to see what their initial flight schedule looks like (according to the article, they'll release their schedules once they get FAA certification).

Last edited by fasteddie800; 02-08-2020 at 09:34 AM. Reason: To add....
fasteddie800 is offline  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:33 AM
  #540  
Layover Master
 
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,311
Default

In regards to technology, I absolutely think what they do could be a game changer. Honestly, I don’t think you should even compare it to what anybody has right now. In my personal opinion, and what I would like to see, is how he compares it to Uber and ridesharing services. Think about this, without the app, Uber is nothing. What if it were the same for breeze?
what if it were an app with an airline, not an airline with an app? Uber completely disrupted the taxi service. At this point, it’s almost hard to imagine what it was like when we had to call a taxi and wait for 20 minutes for some disgruntled person to overcharge us for a short drive. It’s crazy how far ride sharing has come and how ubiquitous it is.
what if the breeze app allowed customers to purchase airline tickets with prices that fluctuated with demand on a minute by minute basis similar to the way that Uber charges for ridesharing? Because they are focusing on a leisure travel market, especially weekend travelers, the app could allow them to simply open it up and buy a quick weekend ticket for say under $100, and it be a direct flight to a popular leisure Destiination.
with enough destinations, people could use the app where they lived and just check flights for the fun of it at any time. It wouldn’t be the traditional opening of a search engine and looking for the lowest flights. It would be a completely different idea and model. Changing the paradigm of how people think of buying tickets. Similar to what Expedia etc did to travel agents 20 years ago...

Just my stream of conscious thought on it.
PotatoChip is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Frisky Pilot
Regional
20
01-01-2022 05:02 PM
Drums4life
Regional
107
08-16-2011 11:21 PM
ryane946
Major
25
03-06-2007 08:53 PM
RedBaron007
Major
3
01-31-2007 09:05 PM
RockBottom
Major
0
03-07-2005 11:04 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices