FullyInvolved

Hi folks. Posted a little while ago...would like to ask for some more advice:

Short version: I'm 23 y/o working as a career firefighter. I'm trying to make the switch to become an airline pilot. I've started PPL training through a local school on my off days. I only work 10 days a month so I'm using my ~20 off days a month to hit the training hard. I chose to do flight training on my off days (instead of quitting the FD and going to ATP Flight School) so I can use my salary from my FD job (~80k) to pay for flight lessons and so I can get my bachelor's (and hopefully master's) degree using the city's tuition reimbursement.

I've really been thinking the last few weeks how much I really want this. I have a decent paying job now with phenomenal job security and an excellent retirement. I'm worried how volatile the airline industry is and the possibility of quitting my FD job down the road (after spending probably $60K+ in flight training) and getting on with a regional or major and getting furloughed/laid off.

What is the general consensus on the outlook for airline pilots? I read the Boeing document which sounds great but it sounds like most of those are going to be in Asia. I know regionals are hiring like crazy now but by the time I get to CFI and get 1500hrs, it's going to be 3-4 years. Is right now really THE time to become a pilot?

My plan is to get to 1500 as fast as I can and get on with Envoy and then stay there until I flow to American (I talked to a recruiter recently who said it's currently around 7 years). Is this necessarily a "bad" plan to have? How hard is it to get hired by American off the street without a flow agreement?

Any other thoughts or advice?

sourdough44

At 23 you'd have plenty of time to make things work out. It may take a bit of faith once in awhile. You need to keep the flight training on the fast track, while adding some college credits.

There is no guarantee where you may end up, plenty have been in similar shoes. I'd be holding on to your current job as long as possible while working on the transition.

FullyInvolved

My plan is to get my CFI as soon as I can while continuing to work at the FD. I've got an associate's degree so I'm starting my bachelor's now.

I can certainly work at the FD until I get my CFI. I just don't know how flexible schools are once I get my CFI when it comes to scheduling. Is it likely to be able to continue to work as a FF (24 hrs on, 48 off) and just teach on my two off days? That would help tremendously as I would still have my FD salary.

As far as airline salaries go, I've seen some pay rates per hour from some websites. Once you get to the majors/legacies, are those pilots still flying "about 900 hours" a year to roughly calculate an annual salary? I've heard American FOs on the smallest aircraft are making around $160k while the Captains are making $250k. Is that fairly accurate?

Thanks again.

kevbo

Just start flight training and college. Expecting a job at a major is like expecting to win a lottery. i would take 80k at 23 over 250k at 55 any day.

FullyInvolved

I know it's a long road to the majors but financially speaking, an airline salary at a major will far exceed any amount I'll ever make as a FF. Even with a couple more promotions, I'm looking at topped out pay around $105k at the FD.

I am working on my flight lessons and degree now. Are there any "extra-curricular" things that I can start doing now to help set me apart from other candidates down the road?

And another question, should I consider purchasing an airplane to do my training in? I have enough saved where I could pay cash for a Cessna 150 or something but that's not going to get me very far in training is it? I would need an IFR equipped airplane, right? I know there's hangar and insurance fees, but in the long run, is that something that could save me money versus paying $125+/hr for an airplane rental?

Thanks again for the replies. This is all new to me so just trying to educate myself. :-)

atpcliff

You can read on this website all the salary numbers.

There are a number of interesting options now. You can basically get hired by a major (like AA) while still working on your ratings...you will go to their regional, when you have your ATP, and then will go to the major later.

UAL has a deal for CFIs. You interview with UAL/Lufthansa, work for LH in PHX as a flight instructor, and when you get your ATP go directly to UAL narrow-body, skipping the regionals.

Envoy, PSA and Piedmont, all owned by AA, have direct flow-through.
For Commutair, you can interview with them and UAL at the same time. If approved by UAL, you will then have flow through, after "XXX" at Commutair.
Other regionals have guaranteed interviews.

The situation will be greatly improved in a few years, as the pilot shortage tsunami really starts blasting away at HR departments across the industry.

FullyInvolved

I've really been looking into Envoy since I'm from DFW. It's attractive knowing that once I get there I would have a guaranteed spot at American as long as I wait and stick it out. I could also apply off-the-street to other airlines while working there, although I imagine wouldn't be a very strong candidate.

atpcliff, I certainly hope that's the case. I've read/heard people say that this is the best time to get into aviation in a long time. I just feel like I'm behind since I'm still working on my PPL and by the time I get on with a regional, I'll be at the "back end" of those who came in during this 'good time'.

Sliceback

If you start from zero and train full time it's maybe 2.5 yrs to get a regional job. The 1.5 yrs post training is typical as a CFI. APC 'airline profiles' has the pay rates.

Flow is roughly 6 yrs. APC 'airline profiles' had the pay. Eight year (10?) process *if* you get your training full time. Or 7-9 yrs after you get your Comm/inst/CFI and start flying full time for a living.

On reserve 850-900 hrs of pay is reasonable.
Line holder is 900-1300. Avg is probably 1000-1100 hrs.

Sliceback

Spend your dollars on getting into flying first. Finish your degree after your flying for a living. The sooner you get hired at a regional the sooner you'll get hired by a major airline. It will take you several years to build a competitive pilot resume. During those years you can finish your degree.

FullyInvolved

Thanks, Sliceback. Yes, I know getting to a regional ASAP will help me. I think Envoy was flowing to American around 5 years a while ago but that time frame has already gone up. I imagine it will only continue to increase so I really want to get on ASAP.

ATP Flight School is so tempting because of how fast it will get you there but it's just too much of a gamble for me to quit my FD career versus doing it on my off days and using my salary so I can finish debt free. Tough decisions.