galaxy flyer

It’s not a lot, but a 1,000 hours in the A-10 gave me a hint at what high-G, low level is like. That and a 500’AGL mid-air

“Stink” is not offensive, merely an expression of the tribal nature of aviation. A friend had 12 years of corporate B727 time, but was told he wasn’t a true corporate pilot. Airline stink there.
GF

AirTractorPilot

Its been 5 years since I posted this and it seems the industry has changed. I'll turn 58 this winter and I've decided that I'm going to make a move somewhere. This is strictly a QOL move as I know it will be a short 121 career. So the question I'm asking myself is 121 or 91K. I believe I could actually upgrade with NJ before retirement unlike 121. I'm leaning towards ATP/CTP with written and applying with NJ and FlexJet but in the back of my mind wondering if I should get the ATP and apply at the ULCCs? 12,000 TT, 11,000 TPIC (all SE), 100 ME. 8000 TPIC over 12,500lbs. I know that's not a thing but one company told me it was to them???? Would a fractional be a better way to end my career than a regional or ULCC? My son is at a 121 cargo and says most regionals are short CA so only hiring prior 121. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I live in the DFW area and prefer not to move.

JohnBurke

I've spent a lot of years hopping between a Dromader or a Thrush or an Air Tractor 502 or 802, and a Learjet, 747, etc, back and forth. The "ag stink" is real, but in today's market, largely superfluous. If you're multi current and instrument current, that's what the employer needs to know, and can you pass a checkride and a type rating? Once the foot is in the door, nobody will much care what you were doing before.

For a lot of years, the "airline stink" put a stigma around those with 121 time who tried to go somewhere else, and most of us are familiar with the 121 guys who wanted to fly ag or other such stuff. Nightmares. Almost as bad as military pilots trying to fly ag. Ugh. (then again, crawl out of an 802 and into a F-16...)

When I did my type in the 747, I'd just barely come out of an 802 a couple of weeks prior to ground school. In the sim when we did a V1 cut, I mashed that rudder and the airplane tried to roll over on me. The instructor his the freeze button and asked what the hell I was doing. It took a couple of tries to figure out that the rudder was several stories tall, and I didn't need to throw it around like a tailwheel airplane. For me, it was the transition back and forth a few times a year, low and slow to high and fast, that was exhausting. More so, the older I got. Dogs, tricks, and all.

Ag aviation (and fire, and other utility stuff) does carry the cowboy stigma, and it's viewed through the lens of ignorance by many, usually those who couldn't fly their way out of a wet paper bag. Many moons ago, a very condescending captain in the 747 remarked, when he learned of my ag background, "I guess you don't have any precision flying experience, then." I asked if formation flying under powerlines at gross weight in strong winds counted, and he said, "we don't do much flying under powerlines, here." Point taken, but his ignorance ran thick and heavy. Nice guy, but an idiot. Don't let those who don't understand where you've come from, stand in your way. Apply, interview, go to work, and ignore those who tell you that you can't. They're wrong.

You can upgrade with a regional, and you can upgrade with a legacy, if you're willing to travel and work out of places you don't want to move or live.

You might be happiest at an ACMI carrier doing freight or somewhere like Omni, doing passengers. Those kinds of outfits tend to have broad experience base among the crew who come from every walk of life from corporate to military to regional to utility to cargo, and the culture tends to be a bit more reflective of that, too. The flying tends to be interesting, the destinations varied, and in my opinion, the work rewarding. It's not ag, but then nothing is, and while staring out the window for ten hours on an oceanic trip isn't the epitome of excitement, after the third or fourth pass on a field, that becomes work, too. Different strokes. Give it a look, all the same. Apply. Interview. You can always say 'no.'

TOGALOCK

The industry isn’t even recognizable as the same industry as when you last posted your question. If you want to get to the airlines you have an excellent shot. Unfortunately, even in today’s market, only 100 hours of multi will probably keep you off of the radar of the big 3 for a bit. Your son is correct that, despite the shortage, regional hiring has slowed as a result of a shortage of qualified captains. Put your stuff in though, you never know what might happen. If I were you I’d take a strong look at Frontier who now has a DFW base. Quality of life will be much better than the regionals and you will have 15% DC to your 401k without having to put a penny in yourself. Not a bad deal in your years leading up to retirement. If you choose to, you will likely spend a good few years in the left seat of an Airbus making 250-300k+ depending how how hard you want to work.

A down side for the airlines would be that you will likely have to commute at some point. That may not be something that interests you at the end of your career and can be quite the culture shock for someone not initiated in the lifestyle. If commuting is something you’d like to avoid at all costs, I’m sure you could likely get picked up by a fractional. They will airline you to wherever the aircraft is at the start of your work period.

Bottom line, if you want an airline or fractional job, you will likely get one. Just stay humble and don’t “expect” anything. Understandably, you were a bit irked during your original posting at the notion of “ag stink”. I get your feelings. You’re a highly skilled and experienced pilot in your field. But “professional pilot” is a segmented industry and you’re not in with the “in club” with the airlines….Yet. No different than if I randomly showed up for an interview for an Ag position. Each pilot is a specialist in their field. Just as a heart surgeon may not be your first choice for a hip replacement. Especially if applying to something other than a regional, recruiters will likely look at you a bit differently than someone else with a traditional airline/fractional background. Despite the need for pilots in this environment, nothing will get you bounced out of an interview faster than coming across as feeling owed a position based on one’s past experience. That includes military pilots as well.

But put your feelers out, if you interview anywhere other than a regional spend the money on some interview prep, be humble, and you will get somewhere. Good luck!

AirTractorPilot

I spent 36 hours over 13 days under the hood and in actual IMC with 3 different instructors in an Arrow and Apache. Really raised my confidence level. It’s amazing how deer in the headlights I was at first. Trying to keep up with the airplane and ATC while getting vectors to an ILS in between a 73 and a 76 was very humbling. But it all came back and I feel ready to move forward. I start ATP CTP on the 11th hoping to go to FlexJet.
On a side note my youngest son has a December class date with Frontier and my oldest son is starting his journey at ATP.

JohnBurke

It's a lot harder to go from a large transport category airplane, to an air tractor, than the other way around.

But as the bard said, remember that it's just like riding a bicycle, only a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.

AirTractorPilot

Almost ready to submit my app to Frontier. I'm waiting for one more letter of rec from a former employer who is now going through check airman class with Frontier. Its been a lot of studying and new tricks for this old dog but I'm happy where I've positioned myself.
ATP AMEL A320 type
Commercial ASEL
11,424 TT
10,552 TPIC All SEL
114 AMEL

TeamSasquatch

Dang Dude, I’m impressed, you have a great chance by adding a type and full ATP. It really shows you can learn, IMO.

Excargodog

Suggestion:

Shotgun apps to any and all majors you would like to fly with. It doesn't cost much and as Wayne Gretzky said, you miss 100% of the shots not taken. Let THEM elect not to interview you or respond to your applications if that's their choice. But don't give up without taking a shot at your real goal.

mattmatt

wow. nicely done. good luck!