rickair7777

No downside that I see.

Other than probation, but these days (unlike the past) they won't fire you for something trivial like forgetting your necktie. You have to really screw up, so most people should be able to stay out of trouble. Don't sit reserve out of position, don't abuse SM, don't use PEDs during block time.

Orion159

This thread really resonates with me. I will be getting out of the Navy in the next 2-3 years at 32 with 11 years as a P-3/P-8 NFO. I've had a taste of white collar office life in the flight test industry and I am thoroughly disinterested by it. I've always loved flying and am looking to start a second career as a pilot on the outside, while remaining in the Navy Reserve until I hit 20 years. I will be looking to start my licensing as soon as possible, as I currently have just 33 hours as a student pilot. Engaged, but no kids yet. Fiancé is extremely supportive of me chasing my dream, and I'll be hoping to build time as quickly as possible with the goal of settling down in the Seattle area. Thanks for allowing us to follow your journey!

wavefunction

I have not flown since 2003 and left aviation all together in 2008, is there anyway I could return given the amount of jobs out there? I have no idea where to even begin or if a fractional would even talk to me. That’s where I would go if I could. My total time is 3800 with 1000 turbojet. I have a type rating in the EMB-145.

rickair7777

You could definitely get hired at any of a number of regionals as an FO, likely with bonuses for the type or just because. If you have 1,000 121 you could be a DEC, I have a buddy who just did that after 10+ years (not for the faint of heart, but it can be done).

I'm sure you could also get various 91/135 jobs, but the regional training system will probably be more sympathetic to your situation.

NewCareer

Well, Rick was right. One of the LCCs (B6) emailed and would like to do the virtual phone screen. (I had applied to them before I made the previous post.) And as others have said, in the interest of not burning bridges, I am inclined to get the CJO and take it. This is the one LCC that has ideal bases for me, and I am a big fan of the company (recent issues notwithstanding), know a quite a few people there, and when I started this whole career change, I remember saying how happy I would be if I could get there and call it a day - if I could get there.

Obviously I’d love to get to United but maybe I am being greedy. The previous comments of “get out of the regionals as quick as you can” seems like sound advice. I flew with a Captain recently who said, if I have my heart set on united, stay and upgrade. I don’t have my heart set on it, but it would be great. I guess I did have my heart set on a legacy. The fact that it seems more likely for united (or any legacy) to hire from a competitor instead of a regional supporting their own feed also seems logical.

As Rick said, I could double down and upgrade to captain and try for the legacy or play it safe. I am inclined to play it safe. After the news of Wholly owned young their pay, it makes me nervous that we may be in for trouble.

Shockingly, I do have a decent amount of seniority at my regional. I am about half way up in base, which is absolutely crazy. Good seniority is hard to leave and I do feel like that might be a case for staying, upgrading to captain, and trying to get to united. Especially considering there is a recession afoot. It would suck to go to a new gig right when the music stops. But then again, there is the argument for when the music stops, where would you rather be?

Also, it seems like the retirements at United might increase my chances of moving up the seniority list faster. I know lots of guys at B6 and most are much younger than me and will always be senior to me. But maybe the airlines growth prospects are better which might even things out?

Anyways, I am really torn. I guess my plan will be to get the CJO and make a decision then.

Lastly, and I know I have said this before, but it’s worth repeating. I feel embarrassed even talking about all these first world problems knowing what the guys my age have gone through to get here. For those guys that battled through the lost decade and dealt with all the crap, your struggle is not lost on me. I’m super thankful for all that you’ve endured, all the gains you’ve secured, and all you’ve done for the profession.

Ps - I didn’t realize what a nightmare EWR could be. Dang!

flybub

Congrats on the interview. JetBlue is on my radar as well, as is Spirit. Any job after my current regional will require a commute which makes the decision harder. But the economy is a big factor right now. Folks are blowing through Covid savings and it could be an ugly fall/winter. So my gut tells me to stay put where I have good seniority and a cushy schedule, or take my chance and leap to an LLC. I feel what you're going through and wish you the best of luck!

And, yes. EWR is a dumpster fire right now

rickair7777

Careful about Stockholme Syndrome here. It would be great if you can get on with B6, you'd be set for a happy career. Once the dust settles on that, then evaluate your status with regards to top tier... that would offer more money but also faster career progression (so even more money with faster upgrade) and opportunities to do more varied flying.


Depends on risk tolerance and your personal/family financial situation.

No maybe about it, numbers don't lie. Even age 67/68 would barely move the needle IMO.

Retirements are guaranteed. Growth is not, by any means.

Don't lose any sleep over that, not your fault. If nothing else we're getting a vicarious thrill watching airlines sweat over this. And it helps everybody's odds of contractual gains.

gonnaboy

I, too, am thinking through a possible career change. Here's some background: I'm exploring backup careers (graduated from college two years ago, doing real estate right now) in case the economy really affects the real estate market, so I'm looking at what "hard" (as in, soft vs hard) skills would be worthwhile to obtain and pursue in the meantime.
So, I've come across pilot and have been digging in, especially considering the big pilot shortage that's out there. I'm looking at gaining my pilot's license and building hours up. My dream job would be to be able to do real estate (since it's flexible) and fly for a charter or corporate on more of a part-time basis (2-3 days a week), so I guess my questions are:

1). Are those types of part-time pilot jobs even out there? And if so, how difficult are they to find? Everything I'm seeing looks like you have to have 1,500 hours before you can really get to that point? What type of flying did you do to build up to those 1,500-hours?
2). For majors (Delta, UPS, etc) what does being home with your family look like? From what I've been able to find it looks like you'd miss a lot of nights at home.
3). Is it a fulfilling type of work?

Thanks for any input!

rickair7777

Corporate (or charter, part 91/135) jobs are out there, and currently more available than usual due to the hiring demand at the airlines. Most but not all pilots tend to gravitate to major airline jobs when those are available, and they are available right now.

Corporate aviation in general is all over the map with compensation, work conditions, and QOL. It's very much a who-you-know industry. The best gigs (often equivalent to major airline jobs) are referred to as "unicorns" and you 100% have to know industry insiders to get those. There are plenty of bottom feeder jobs, which you will not enjoy as much as the airlines... many of those have you on call 24/7, so you only know that you have a day off after the fact. Hard to plan family life that way, to say nothing of a side gig.

Can you find a part-time gig? Most likely. Will it be where you want to live, and have all the pay and bennies you want? That's going to be harder.


Fractionals are large corporate operations which function more like airlines for the pilots. They typically do seven days on / seven days off, or some close variation on that.

It depends. Everything in airline aviation is seniority. Once you have a little bit, you have options... you can use your seniority to move up to bigger planes or captain upgrade for more money, or hang out as an FO on a smaller, junior plane so that your *relative* seniority in that seat goes up.

For monthly schedule and vacation, you bid within your seat, equipment, and base. So if you're an LAX 737 FO you might be 30% in that seat, which is pretty good (you'll get weekends and holidays off). A pilot who is just a little senior (or even junior) to you on the global list might be your CA. He would get paid more but his relative seniority as an LAX 737 CA might be 95%... so he would be on call a lot and have last choice for days off and vacation.

Typical for majors (with some seniority) is probably 16-18 days off, doing trips that are 2-4 days long. Local (day) trips are available in most bases but they tend to go somewhat senior.

You typically have flexibility in building your schedule. If you want to work Tu-Fri or Mon-Wed every week, you can do that. If you want to load up all of your flying early in the month and then have eight to ten days off at the end, you can do that too.

Also most of us find that the time we do have at home is better quality time than white-collar jobs... no emails, phone calls, or deadlines. You're actually fully present. For me the QOL at home makes up for the absences.

Right now there's so many retirements that you could grab a lot of seniority quickly and then be in a good position for years to come. But if you're going to do it, get started NOW and be very aggressive, the retirement wave slows down later this decade and you'd want to be at a major before that happens.

Many airline pilots have side gigs, a wide variety, and real-estate is common. You have enough hard days off that you can normally work around the schedule although I assume it would help to work at an agency where someone can cover for you in a bind.


Depends on if you like flying. I would absolutely recommend that you go get a PPL before you make any career decisions. At the very least get your solo sign-off and do a little flying on your own.

For me, I get to do about ten minutes of actual aviation on each end of a flight. The rest is hanging out in the cockpit talking, reading, whatever and answering the radio.

The downside to the job is schedule and sometimes working when you'd rather be sleeping.

NewCareer

Well, got the TBNT from JetBlue but did get an offer from Allegiant.

I am really torn. I am really comfortable at my regional right now. 20 minute drive. AQP and will upgrade to captain in min time.

My new base would be about 1:15 drive. And would be doing it twice a day.

Some say it’s safer to go get the type rating than stay at the regional.

Need to decide in the next day or two. :-/