Pinked my CMEL many years ago for what I considered at the time to be pretty ridiculous... and still do today quite honestly...

Instead of presenting it as that - I thoughtfully crafted it as a mistake that I learned from - that’s all they want to hear - own it - learn from it and how it made you better today (ever since then I’ve created a habit of this or that... I used it as a teaching point with my students, etc..) it’s honestly not a big deal.. it’s all about taking that turd and shining it into a beautiful diamond.

I remember feeling the same way you did after that... thought my career was toast.. that type of feeling is natural in pilots, most of us are pretty type A perfectionists - it’s ok to fail (so long as it’s not reckless and/or fatal)...SOPs, FOMs, regs, AOMs and on and on are written and developed through failure. We learn from it and become better..

It worked out for me.. eventually became a LCA at my old regional and untimely got picked up by Brown. Hang in there!

 

That’s a classic right there.

 

I did these rides at a self examining 141/142. The EOC ride is not a checkride. It is just another stage check. A check ride is a part 61 ride where an 8710 is filled out and it ends with that form being filled out good/bad/discontinuance. In 141 you complete the EOC and are issued a certificate of completion. You then take that certificate and fill out the 8710 but you check the completed an approved course box. A good piece of advise when filling out applications is to answer the question asked. Airline apps actually has a pretty detailed walk through on each page.

Most airlines ask you to tab your check rides in your logbook for this reason. You can easily spot a recheck or lesson repeat. Keep your logbooks squared away and neat.

 

Assume that anyone in aviation will consider a failed EOC as a failed check ride. Nobody except a few 141 employees thinks otherwise. Unless you have it writing from the airline you're applying to.

 

If there is no notice of disapproval in their file in OKC their logbook is really the only record of a redo. A bad wx day or broken airplane could also be used to explain a lot of those odd logbook entries. Stage checks were a little overdone at my previous 141 school and I think there would have been almost 20 checks all the way through a multi engine ride. It is ultimately up to the airlines to define what they view as a "failure" and they all do have very specific instructions. As I recall American and FedEx both broke up EOC rides separately from the letters of disapproval.

 

Just understand what the airline in question wants. Don't try to slip through the grey area... that's not the ethical philosophy they're looking for in a pilot (different if you're applying for management, they probably WANT to know you'll skirt the rules early and often).

Also what are you going to do if you checked no and they straight-up ask you to your face? These people are trained very well and you'd have to be a damn good liar to pull it off in front of an HR lady who's looking at your facial tells.

 

What? The people conducting the interview are line pilots and normal office workers. They were no trained by the CIA.

 

HR hiring professionals are most definitely trained in that sort of thing. The pilots on the panel maybe, maybe not. But you can google it, and it's pretty easy if you get some practice.

Typical professional airline pilot might interview 1-5 times in his life (I did four in aviation). The HR lady did more than that yesterday.

It's not foolproof by any means but they don't have to prove or justify anything, if they don't get a good jibe, then you get a TBNT and they move right on the next guy.

That's why interview prep is important, so you don't blow your big chance because you have no skills in that regime.

Interviewing pilots, who are typically rank amateurs, is a lot easier than say trying to interview experienced high-end sales professionals or executives who already know how to lie for a living.

 

This ^^^
The fact you can steer a multimillion dollar craft through space at night may be pure unadulterated magic but it won’t help if you can’t talk your way out of a wet paper bag.

Now hear this:

- Have you ever failed an evaluation?

- Have you ever failed a checkride ?

Are two different questions.
Read the question and answer it.
If a school has self examining authority then the EOC will lead to issuance of a certificate after review.
So for all intends and purposes this is a checkride.

If the school does not have self examining authority then the EOC aid not a checkride as an independent examiner will make the final determination.
So a failed EOC would not constitute a failed checkride but it would constitute a failed evaluation.

 

Maybe at your previous airline. At mine, they used interns to practice for the interview panel to practice on. They don't get any special training in detect people lying.