Spiritant

Greetings,

Cutting right to the chase:

- I have three failed checkrides as a student pilot (instrument, commercial-multi and CFII). None at my current 121 carrier.
- I had an “infraction” back in 2001 for “drug paraphernalia”, which I have truthfully disclosed in all my apps. It has since been expunged.
- I had a poor GPA in college (2.6) but also had one year of study at a 141 University with a 3.8.

I have a ton of volunteer work, 9 internal recommendations, Gold Seal instructor, and other “positives”, but I’m somewhat discouraged at my prospects with everything mentioned above. Current times are 5200 TT & 1400 TPIC 121. It has been my driving motivation to fly for United. Hit me with your honesty about my prospects.

Thank you.

rickair7777

Most of the guys I've seen coming from regionals have more TT and 3-5K TPIC. Your TPIC is low for any legacy, unless you have something else going for you.

Frankly your volunteer, internal recs, and gold seal pale in significance to the busts, and drug thing. You need some airline accolades, LCA, sim instructor, union jobs, ACP, etc. For the union jobs, constructive things likely safety, CIRP, medical may be better than strike coordinator, etc.

With the black marks, you're probably better off trying for an LCC in the near term and then keep applying to all the top tier. DO NOT fixate on just UAL, that's a bad plan for anyone since any big six job will set you up for life. In your case especially so with the baggage.

I think your real dilemma is whether to try for a LCC now, or stay in the regionals and get some more PIC. With the baggage, I'd probably go for the LCC and get your seniority locked in, that's a good living. Holding out for UA or any top tier might well be fruitless in your case. But you have to make your own call, and age is a factor (sounds like you're not a kid).

Your silver lining is all the retirements, they might get to the point where they cannot be picky about qualified airline professionals with baggage in the distant past. But if it gets to that point you can take advantage of that from an LCC.

PotatoChip

Considering the guys I know NOT getting a call with significantly better resumes and no skeletons, I’d be floored if you got a call in the near future. But I know this much, nothing about hiring has made sense to me or seemed “fair”.

Like Rick says, you’re going to need to really stand out. Like become a Chief Pilot. As far as the LCC’s, even those may be difficult. Spirit has been more difficult than before, and Frontier has become more difficult with the new contract. Consider they just had a Meet The Chiefs with 80 people showing up, all qualified, all competing for 10 on site interview slots.....

Spiritant

Very much appreciated. Thank you.

TiredSoul

Not to be overly dramatic but I think your fate is in the hands of the Market.
Supply and demand.
There will never be a shortage of qualified applicants with a clean background.
It really doesn’t matter if you’re the Patron Saint of the Regionals now.
You have blotches that won’t wash out.

On a side note I wouldn’t call GoldSeal a “positive”. It means you’ve done your job right. You don’t get a “+” for doing your job the way you’re supposed to.

As stated above, go heavier on your current job. Training department, LCA, fleet captain, stuff like that.
Word of caution.
You need to do those things for “you” and because you want to.
Not for “United” as you’ll be chasing the rainbow for the rest of your career.

Give it your best and hope for the rest.
Most of us will never make it to the Majors. You may be one of them.
Or not.

Glenn Would

I have a very different view than others on this forum.

You failed 3 checkrides at the primary training level. Since then, you accumulated thousands of hours (and several years) of failure-free 121 experience, including almost 1500 hours of PIC. From legacy recruiters to both current and former HR reps, the overwhelming narrative outside this board is that if you own up to the failures, take responsibility for them, and prove you learned from them (which it seems like you did with your 5200tt/1400 pic), it is not a disqualifier at the legacy level. There are lots of stories of people getting hired at legacies (including UAL) with multiple failures, including 121. With that said, you definitely need more than just line flying and volunteer experience to stand out. LCA, sim instructor, chief pilot/management experience, and non-political union positions would definitely be a good start.

The drug paraphernalia issue is one that I have no experience with, so I can’t comment on that with certainty. But I’d imagine it would be similar to the checkride issue.

rickair7777

That's the theory, unicorns pooping rainbows and eventually everyone eventually gets a fair shot.

The reality is they let the computer sort the apps, and your experience and the boxes you check (and don't check) drive that scoring.

At this point I understand everyone including UAL has a person do a reality check on the app before they call you.

So first hurdle is getting the app score high enough to get flagged for interview. More experience, type ratings, LCA, etc. will drive that. Hopefully none of the boxes checked are DQ.

Second hurdle is that final human review before they call you, where they read the details about the boxes you checked. The problem with "drug paraphernalia", or things like theft/assault, is that it will be a challenge for HR to adjudicate what actually happened. Best case, it was good dude, wrong place/wrong time. Worst case you're a thief, prone to violence, addict or drug dealer. HR has to incur extra work and risk in making that call. Might be easier for them to just go to the next guy, who might have a DUI... that's actually pretty easy to adjudicate. I'd rather have the DUI personally.

That's how it works. But don't give up, eventually your pros will likely outweigh the cons. You might be better off going to a second-tier major, just so you don't waste years waiting for a call that you can't be sure will come, or when.

JohnBurke

What is a "141 Univeristy?"

PotatoChip

A university/college with a part 141 flight school attached or associated.
UND, Purdue, Auburn, Embry Riddle....

rickair7777

In this context presumably one with FAA R-ATP authorization.