Big 4 Career Goal: 135 vs 121 TPIC

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09-15-2021, 07:02 PM

#31

Tryin2b

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Joined APC: Sep 2021

Posts: 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777

That's something you definitely want to do, and it's typically easier to accumulate those resume bullets in a small/medium 135 op than at a big regional. If I were doing interviews, I'd frankly wonder about an experienced 135 pilot who *didn't* have any leadership/extra-curricular stuff... if Mom & Pop don't trust you, why should my legacy?

That’s a good way to put it. I never assumed that’d be a viewpoint

09-15-2021, 07:06 PM

#32

Tryin2b

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Joined APC: Sep 2021

Posts: 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sqwk7700

None were from a fractional operator actually.

Wow. That’s surprising. Everyone i know has told me to leave 135 captain gig for a regional FO for a better chance.

08-23-2022, 12:37 PM

#33

Willfly4

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Joined APC: Jul 2022

Posts: 18

Stay at regionals or move to fractional

If my goal is a legacy 121 carrier would it make sense to leave the regionals for a fractional? Been with a regional for 6 months and fractionals pay/QOL seems much better than 1st year FO schedule/pay. Currently 23 years old so definitely wouldn’t mind sitting with a fractional for some time to upgrade to captain if it would be a longer wait.

08-23-2022, 12:50 PM

#34

tnkrdrvr

Occasional box hauler

Joined APC: Jan 2018

Posts: 1,693

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willfly4

If your goal is one of the big 4, you need to make yourself competitive ASAP to catch this hiring wave quickly. The party is great right now, but the music can stop at anytime. Grab a seat before they’re gone.

08-23-2022, 01:27 PM

#35

rickair7777

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Joined APC: Jan 2006

Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim

Posts: 39,367

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willfly4

No.

1. Waiting for upgrade at a frac would cost you years of seniority at a legacy. Even if you still get hired, the lost seniority will haunt you for the rest of your career. It's not just getting hired, it's about catching some of the wave and moving up rapidly before it slows down later this decade.

2. Frac upgrade can be years longer than regionals, most frac CA's are not there to build time, so they are not going anywhere until they're ready to retire. They also don't have to retire at age 65.

3. Historically, 121 time has been preferred by most majors over any GA, 135, or frac experience. They are not as picky today for obvious reasons, but 121 regional PIC is really second only to mil experience as far as the majors are concerned.

08-23-2022, 02:15 PM

#36

Willfly4

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Posts: 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777

So just grind out the low pay for the time being and look to upgrade where I’m at now in about a year or so?

08-23-2022, 02:51 PM

#37

rickair7777

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Willfly4

So just grind out the low pay for the time being and look to upgrade where I’m at now in about a year or so?

Statistically that's the fastest path.

Some regionals are paying pretty good right now. The delay for regional upgrade is not seniority... it's the 121 1000 hour requirement. If your regional still pays poorly, you can go to another one and take your 121 time with you. You'd lose time due to training pipeline, but if you really need more money that's an option.

If you don't need the money, just tough it out... you'll have more money than you know what to do with at the legacy. In my 20's and 30's I didn't spend money, focused on savings and career progression. That worked out well for me, on several fronts. You don't even actually need money when you're young, just beer and women.

08-23-2022, 02:52 PM

#38

tnkrdrvr

Occasional box hauler

Joined APC: Jan 2018

Posts: 1,693

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willfly4

So just grind out the low pay for the time being and look to upgrade where I’m at now in about a year or so?

That would be the wisest course of action. Nothing is stopping you from applying now to the big 4. They have all dropped their Turbine PIC requirements. UPS is the last holdout for that.

09-03-2022, 04:18 PM

#39

publius

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Joined APC: May 2022

Posts: 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOGALOCK

I think s/he’s just referring to the flight experience requirements to upgrade and act as PIC under 121. A pilot needs to have 1000 SIC operating under 121 in order to be qualified to act as PIC under 121. There are a few things that can substitute or compliment the 1000 SIC requirement. One of them is PIC time in a turbojet/fan operated under 135, but the aircraft must have 10 or more seats. So, he is technically right that your citation PIC time would not count towards upgrade requirements if push came to shove. Someone generally won’t have that problem if they went 135 to major though as they will have accrued plenty of 121 SIC by the time upgrade would come around anyway. It was more of a problem at the regional level during the last boom. In some cases, seniority list movement was so quick that a first officer’s seniority could hold a captain spot before they even met the experience requirements. In that situation it helped if they came in with some other form of qualifying experience at their time of hire (like the discussed 135 PIC time).

Hi TOGALOCK,

How about a European pilot who logged 4300 hours (on A330 & 320) as SIC but not any PIC hours + green card holder + 2 different Master's Degrees?

Can he be legally qualified as PIC at the legacy airlines?

Which path would be a good fit:

a) Starting as F/O in one of the Regionals then be upgraded and doing 121 PIC hours.
b) Long term F/O position in a legacy airline + if possible (with no PIC hours) upgrade?

Thanks

09-04-2022, 08:43 PM

#40

rickair7777

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Quote:

Originally Posted by publius

How about a European pilot who logged 4300 hours (on A330 & 320) as SIC but not any PIC hours + green card holder + 2 different Master's Degrees?

Can he be legally qualified as PIC at the legacy airlines?

The answer is no. The 121 SIC (or 135 PIC) experience requirement can only be acquired under FAA 121 or 135. Not foriegn equivalents.

But not a big deal... you can still get hired as an FO and then upgrade after a couple years based on SIC time acquired at the legacy. You need 1000 hours as a 121 SIC in order to upgrade.

Actually no US legacies formally hire direct entry captains (DECs). Although at this moment in time it's possible to upgrade in less than one year at a few majors.

Which path would be a good fit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by publius

a) Starting as F/O in one of the Regionals then be upgraded and doing 121 PIC hours.

Do this only if you can't get hired directly by a good major. Getting regional 121 PIC will improve your competitiveness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by publius

b) Long term F/O position in a legacy airline + if possible (with no PIC hours) upgrade?

Do this and skip the regionals, if you can get an interview call (you probably can).

You no longer need TPIC to get hired at most US airlines, but it does help.

You don't need any TPIC to upgrade at a US airline, you just need 1000 hours of 121 SIC. You can also qualify with 1000 hours of certain part 135 (or fractional) PIC experience.