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121 Termination in LOFT

Old 01-09-2024, 05:23 PM
  #1  
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Default 121 Termination in LOFT

Hello everyone looking for some advice and guidance,

I was recently terminated from training at a 121 regional airline. Hiccup in GV 78/95 on the retest. I was confused about CRJ-200 conditions on icing and should have asked ahead of time. PV,MV passed with no issues. During loft me and my sim partner were sent to retraining. My partner was recommended and I was terminated.

I have been thinking about how l could have done better and what went wrong. i definitely fumbled it. Overall flying the plane and procedures were fine. looking back my CRM could have been better, in times of task saturation i should have asked for help. i was behind the plane and when i became saturated instead of asking for help I just tried harder. On the last day i climbed 3kts over the speed profile , didnt request APU to be turned on into icing conditons and stuggled slowing down from the Star to the approach. Was recommended to fly one more session but the training department opted for termination.

My apps are out there, I chair fly and study what they were teaching me every day. And to stay current I am trying to get back to working with the flight school i was at. I plan to use spitfire for interview coaching to talk about what went wrong in a proffessional way. recruiters i called said everyone is FO heavy, when asked how to make my application more marketable they mentioned its a chicken or the egg situation that i need 121 time.

Is my airline career over? Any advice on how to move forward would be very appreciated. The jump from a C-172 to a CRJ was big. But it very much can be done. The airline training department was amazing. I would like more growth. Aside from staying current im not sure a 172 or a Light twin is helping make me a better airline pilot one day. Thank you all for your time and any advice would be much appreciated.
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Old 01-09-2024, 07:08 PM
  #2  
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Originally Posted by Aspire42
Hello everyone looking for some advice and guidance,

I was recently terminated from training at a 121 regional airline. Hiccup in GV 78/95 on the retest. I was confused about CRJ-200 conditions on icing and should have asked ahead of time. PV,MV passed with no issues. During loft me and my sim partner were sent to retraining. My partner was recommended and I was terminated.

I have been thinking about how l could have done better and what went wrong. i definitely fumbled it. Overall flying the plane and procedures were fine. looking back my CRM could have been better, in times of task saturation i should have asked for help. i was behind the plane and when i became saturated instead of asking for help I just tried harder. On the last day i climbed 3kts over the speed profile , didnt request APU to be turned on into icing conditons and stuggled slowing down from the Star to the approach. Was recommended to fly one more session but the training department opted for termination.

My apps are out there, I chair fly and study what they were teaching me every day. And to stay current I am trying to get back to working with the flight school i was at. I plan to use spitfire for interview coaching to talk about what went wrong in a proffessional way. recruiters i called said everyone is FO heavy, when asked how to make my application more marketable they mentioned its a chicken or the egg situation that i need 121 time.

Is my airline career over? Any advice on how to move forward would be very appreciated. The jump from a C-172 to a CRJ was big. But it very much can be done. The airline training department was amazing. I would like more growth. Aside from staying current im not sure a 172 or a Light twin is helping make me a better airline pilot one day. Thank you all for your time and any advice would be much appreciated.
It's easy to look at a setback as the end of the line. There are plenty of pilots at the majors that failed 121 events. The good news is that you're taking ownership of your setback and trying to learn everything you can from it to be better next time. You certainly shouldn't give up hope for a career in the 121 world or as a professional pilot. It's okay to feel sorry for yourself for one day. After that, it's time to get back to work. Keep your chin up and we'll see you out on the line.

P.S. It would be great in a few years for you to come back to this thread and let us all know where you're at.
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Old 01-09-2024, 08:22 PM
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Your career is not over. It may be delayed somewhat. Keep working, keep flying, keep owning your expeirence, and learn and grow from it.

Steve McGarrett of the original Hawaii Five-0, once remakred, "We don't make mistakes here. We just learn great lessons." You've learned a great lesson.

Anyone who hasn't had a bad day is inexperienced. You got some experience.

Your expeirence will be a permanent part of the record. We've just come from a very unrealistic period in aviation history, which is drawing to a close, in which the extremely underqualified couldn't hardly not get hired...but hiring is slowing, requirements will go up, tolerances will tighten, and tolerance of black marks in an applicant's history will go away. That said, even in realistic times, anyone hired in the last few years knows little or nothing about, people were still hired with DUI's, training event failures, terminations, etc.

The most important thing you coan do now is build a history of good employment and solid checkrides. That may or may not be at a regional airline. Airlines are NOT the last word in aviation, no matter what anyone tells you. Go build a little employment history flying a Beech 1900 or 99 doing freight with Ameriflight or Alpine, showing checkrides, PIC experience, etc. What you can do goes further than what didn't go well, meaning if you have recent past showing that you can get hired, can pass checkrides, and can perform on the job, then that counts for something, and recent good experience can overshadow lessons learned from the past, even if they stay on your record. Those past events become something you can talk about at an interview, when telling a success story about lessons learned and how you overcame.

Some will tell you that seniority is almighty, that it transcends life itself, and that the world will crumble to shards of glass if you don't grab the big brass ring yesterday and claim your seniority number. Not so. It's okay to go instruct a bit more, go fly some freight, go fly some jumpers, tow a banner or two, work, live, take a deep breath, and look forward, not back. Your career is not over. Your chances are not gone. You have a much better picture of what you need to do in future. Give yourself permissiont to dust yourself and move on. Life ain't over yet.

Long way from it.
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Old 01-10-2024, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Aspire42
The jump from a C-172 to a CRJ was big.
Jumping from Single Pilot Ops to Multi Crew, Instructing excluded, takes time to learn. The buzz term is CRM.



https://va-airlinetraining.com/news/...t-competencies


Use of the Pilot Core of Competencies is a valuable tool in all areas of CRM.

The Competencies include:

Communication
Problem Solving Decision Making
Workload Management
Knowledge
Situational Awareness
Leadership / Teamwork
Flight Path Mgt (Automation & Manual)

You'll get back on the airway after the hiccup.

All the best






It's a took, which I have and continue to use, while training crews.
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Old 01-10-2024, 06:06 AM
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Take a look around for some part 135 operations if you are not getting call backs in reference to any current applications. Part 135 experience could help you build some quality flight time and put a little distance between this event and your next interview. It would show your next employer that you have what it takes to pass a structured training program and even better if it's typed equipment and/or PIC time.

If you have 1,200hrs, take a look at Ameriflight. They specialize in taking low time pilots to fly the Beech 99. However, while it is PIC time, beware that position is single pilot and very demanding flying.
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Old 01-10-2024, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Aspire42
Hello everyone looking for some advice and guidance,

I was recently terminated from training at a 121 regional airline. Hiccup in GV 78/95 on the retest. I was confused about CRJ-200 conditions on icing and should have asked ahead of time. PV,MV passed with no issues. During loft me and my sim partner were sent to retraining. My partner was recommended and I was terminated.

I have been thinking about how l could have done better and what went wrong. i definitely fumbled it. Overall flying the plane and procedures were fine. looking back my CRM could have been better, in times of task saturation i should have asked for help. i was behind the plane and when i became saturated instead of asking for help I just tried harder. On the last day i climbed 3kts over the speed profile , didnt request APU to be turned on into icing conditons and stuggled slowing down from the Star to the approach. Was recommended to fly one more session but the training department opted for termination.

My apps are out there, I chair fly and study what they were teaching me every day. And to stay current I am trying to get back to working with the flight school i was at. I plan to use spitfire for interview coaching to talk about what went wrong in a proffessional way. recruiters i called said everyone is FO heavy, when asked how to make my application more marketable they mentioned its a chicken or the egg situation that i need 121 time.

Is my airline career over? Any advice on how to move forward would be very appreciated. The jump from a C-172 to a CRJ was big. But it very much can be done. The airline training department was amazing. I would like more growth. Aside from staying current im not sure a 172 or a Light twin is helping make me a better airline pilot one day. Thank you all for your time and any advice would be much appreciated.
Career is not over, it'll take a little time and distance to get it on track though. Apply to Mesa.

I've got a buddy who failed loft. Went to Mesa, did fine there, after a bit on the line went to an AA WO as a DEC then went to SWA. Took about 3 years.
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Old 01-10-2024, 06:53 AM
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You'll be fine, you seem to have a good attitude.

Big jump from ASEL to crew 121. Your next event will go much better now that you've seen it. Do some critical thinking about how you went about it last time, and what you should do differently. It would be ideal if can try again on the same airplane.
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Old 01-10-2024, 07:30 AM
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I have to say, I donít know how pilots today go right from ASEL to crew jet airplanes. Itís a huge leap. Back in my day we flew cancelled checks at night part 135 and then maybe went and flew 19 seat turboprops with no autopilot for many years before setting foot in our first jet. Each step prepared us for the next.

Have you considered a carrier like Ameriflight that still flies Beech 1900s, Metros, and Saabs? Itís a great bridge to jet flying and also sets you apart from the RJ crowd. Youíll have better stories to tell at your major airline interview.
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Old 01-10-2024, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
I have to say, I don’t know how pilots today go right from ASEL to crew jet airplanes.
Lots of them. The majority I'd say.

Starting with the RJ boom, the regionals' bread and butter pilot pool has been CFI's.

Regional training has certainly adapted to that, but that doesn't mean it's easy.
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Old 01-12-2024, 10:32 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by Aspire42

looking back my CRM could have been better, in times of task saturation i should have asked for help. i was behind the plane and when i became saturated instead of asking for help I just tried harder. On the last day i climbed 3kts over the speed profile , didnt request APU to be turned on into icing conditons and stuggled slowing down from the Star to the approach
Guys are saying that you're 'owning it.' Sorry but I don't see that. You didn't get terminated for flying 3 kts faster than the profile. That's not why people get fired. More likely you got terminated for being saturated, being behind the aircraft (trouble slowing on the STAR to the approach), not staying on top of the situtation/scenario/system knowledge/SOP's (anti-ice/APU SOP's). Learning/figuring how to stay on top of the aircraft, timing/step/purpose of the SOP's and checklists, will improve your tasking loading. At some point almost everyone gets behind the airplane and some point in their training. With training and experience it's less likely to happen. But when it does happen the instructors expect 3 things - realization that you're behind the aircraft, that you get on top of the aircraft(situation), and then get ahead of the aircraft. I tell upgrading FO's "you're going to fall behind at some point. They're looking to see if you realize it, identify it, fix it, and get ahead of the aircraft." If they DON'T they're at high risk at failing the upgrade.

"Trying harder" instead of asking for help is hard to understand in context but I've seen that said by people who don't get/understand CRM, multi-crew operations, and/or just doing the basic flying. "Trying harder" just doesn't work if you're not 'inside the circle' doing the SOP's, flying, checklist, flows, FMC work, communication, CRM. It's not just flying the airplane it's also keeping track of the entire flight - energy, S.A., location on a profile, location to the airport, location the threat/terrain, distance/energy to next fix/profile constraint *or* the next transition point (ie STAR higher speed transitioning to approach mode thinking), distance/energy to the airport.

Going from a C-172 to a regional jet is a big step. The speed alone makes things happen quicker. Slowing to 210 kts and then 170 kts in training is mind numbing....if you're flown jets before. Training speeds are good to learn the steps and process but realize that operational life is even quicker. Our SOP is 170 kts at 9 nm.

Get more experience, build your resume, and you'll get better as your experience level increases. Good luck.
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