Hair Sample
04-26-2008, 10:55 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: DA-40
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer
If he smoked a joint, he has already shown he believes he can decide when to comply with laws or rules. Marijuana is still illegal on a Federal level, despite any municipality's or state's attempt to make it legal for medical purposes.
Since he has shown a disregard for civil law, do you think he would be more or less inclined to obey FARs? The use of illegal drugs is a violation of FARs.
On the other hand, alcohol use is condoned if you avoid all use within 12 hours and are sober at the time of duty.
I don't want anybody in my cockpit who thinks he can decide when to be FAR-compliant. That is alcohol, illegal drugs, over-the-counter, or lack of sleep.
Since he has shown a disregard for civil law, do you think he would be more or less inclined to obey FARs? The use of illegal drugs is a violation of FARs.
On the other hand, alcohol use is condoned if you avoid all use within 12 hours and are sober at the time of duty.
I don't want anybody in my cockpit who thinks he can decide when to be FAR-compliant. That is alcohol, illegal drugs, over-the-counter, or lack of sleep.
04-28-2008, 12:28 PM
#22
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,319
Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer
If he smoked a joint, he has already shown he believes he can decide when to comply with laws or rules. Marijuana is still illegal on a Federal level, despite any municipality's or state's attempt to make it legal for medical purposes.
Since he has shown a disregard for civil law, do you think he would be more or less inclined to obey FARs? The use of illegal drugs is a violation of FARs.
On the other hand, alcohol use is condoned if you avoid all use within 12 hours and are sober at the time of duty.
I don't want anybody in my cockpit who thinks he can decide when to be FAR-compliant. That is alcohol, illegal drugs, over-the-counter, or lack of sleep.
Since he has shown a disregard for civil law, do you think he would be more or less inclined to obey FARs? The use of illegal drugs is a violation of FARs.
On the other hand, alcohol use is condoned if you avoid all use within 12 hours and are sober at the time of duty.
I don't want anybody in my cockpit who thinks he can decide when to be FAR-compliant. That is alcohol, illegal drugs, over-the-counter, or lack of sleep.
It's eight hours actually.
Marijuana is not a big deal. Lots of things are illegal...spitting on the sidewalk, speeding, parking after the meter runs out, and oral sex in many states.
Are you telling that you've never done ANY of those things?
If you're going to judge someone on youthful indiscretions, you need to look at whether any harm was done to others, and the societal context of the act...society in general is actually OK with occasional dope smoking (or maybe you hadn't heard).
Once you enter a new society, like military or avaition, then the context changes. I admittedly would have no sympathy for a drug abuser who is an active professional pilot.
04-28-2008, 05:17 PM
#23
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Clarifications
Sorry about misquoting 12 hours, I was thinking military (where it is 12 hours).
No, I have never smoked weed. Ever. Nor have I driven drunk, had sex with a minor, or shoplifted.
Why? I'm a guy who follows the rules.
I would dissent with your view that society approves weed use, as most surveys still show a majority do not favor decriminalizing it. Since you think I "haven't heard," I assure you I listen most intently.
You feel that weed is of no consequence, but I would beg to differ. I watched friends in High School go down the tubes after they started smoking pot. I know that the flow of drug money causes crime and death, both in America, and south of the border.
You're probably 35 or younger, and in the last 20 years, the popular media has repeatedly portrayed pot as "OK," or acceptable. Your friends have probably used it. As such, you have been cultivated to find it socially acceptable.
I see it as one more avenue of muting or diminishing ambition, intellectual growth, and human potential. That's why I'm against it.
No, I have never smoked weed. Ever. Nor have I driven drunk, had sex with a minor, or shoplifted.
Why? I'm a guy who follows the rules.
I would dissent with your view that society approves weed use, as most surveys still show a majority do not favor decriminalizing it. Since you think I "haven't heard," I assure you I listen most intently.
You feel that weed is of no consequence, but I would beg to differ. I watched friends in High School go down the tubes after they started smoking pot. I know that the flow of drug money causes crime and death, both in America, and south of the border.
You're probably 35 or younger, and in the last 20 years, the popular media has repeatedly portrayed pot as "OK," or acceptable. Your friends have probably used it. As such, you have been cultivated to find it socially acceptable.
I see it as one more avenue of muting or diminishing ambition, intellectual growth, and human potential. That's why I'm against it.
04-29-2008, 07:43 AM
#24
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by rickair7777
I heard Alaska uses a hair sample...to test for nicotine 
Furthermore, I disagree completely with the above statements that if you smoke weed you will break FARs. I agree with laws that are for safety and to prevent people being victimized. That being said, I cannot understand why laws are made to prevent victim less crimes such as smoking weed. I feel laws of this nature are unconstitutional. However, flying an airplane by nature is not a victim less crime and a job that require you to be sober alcohol, weed, or otherwise.
My hypothetical question is when weed is legalize (and I believe it will be in my career) how many hours grass to glass?
Last edited by DanC; 04-29-2008 at 08:10 AM. Reason: i cant write
04-29-2008, 08:01 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Spartan
Posts: 3,652
Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer
Sorry about misquoting 12 hours, I was thinking military (where it is 12 hours).
No, I have never smoked weed. Ever. Nor have I driven drunk, had sex with a minor, or shoplifted.
Why? I'm a guy who follows the rules.
I would dissent with your view that society approves weed use, as most surveys still show a majority do not favor decriminalizing it. Since you think I "haven't heard," I assure you I listen most intently.
You feel that weed is of no consequence, but I would beg to differ. I watched friends in High School go down the tubes after they started smoking pot. I know that the flow of drug money causes crime and death, both in America, and south of the border.
You're probably 35 or younger, and in the last 20 years, the popular media has repeatedly portrayed pot as "OK," or acceptable. Your friends have probably used it. As such, you have been cultivated to find it socially acceptable.
I see it as one more avenue of muting or diminishing ambition, intellectual growth, and human potential. That's why I'm against it.
No, I have never smoked weed. Ever. Nor have I driven drunk, had sex with a minor, or shoplifted.
Why? I'm a guy who follows the rules.
I would dissent with your view that society approves weed use, as most surveys still show a majority do not favor decriminalizing it. Since you think I "haven't heard," I assure you I listen most intently.
You feel that weed is of no consequence, but I would beg to differ. I watched friends in High School go down the tubes after they started smoking pot. I know that the flow of drug money causes crime and death, both in America, and south of the border.
You're probably 35 or younger, and in the last 20 years, the popular media has repeatedly portrayed pot as "OK," or acceptable. Your friends have probably used it. As such, you have been cultivated to find it socially acceptable.
I see it as one more avenue of muting or diminishing ambition, intellectual growth, and human potential. That's why I'm against it.
I don't condone illegal drug use and was one of the few in my high school crowd that never did any(minus alcohol). Some turned into pot head losers, two are doctors, one a physical therapist. Roll the dice, I guess.
04-29-2008, 08:27 AM
#26
New boss = Old boss
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
Originally Posted by Slice
Isn't that guy in your avatar breaking the rules? That looks lower than 500' to me... I don't condone illegal drug use and was one of the few in my high school crowd that never did any(minus alcohol). Some turned into pot head losers, two are doctors, one a physical therapist. Roll the dice, I guess.
I don't condone illegal drug use and was one of the few in my high school crowd that never did any(minus alcohol). Some turned into pot head losers, two are doctors, one a physical therapist. Roll the dice, I guess.Now if you insist on defending yourself UAL T38, what about a guy who smokes in Amsterdam several months before interviewing for a job. Should they be excluded? They didn't break any law.
Quick de727ups, lock the thread before this thread degrades in to a thread about,
DRUGS.
Last edited by mike734; 04-29-2008 at 08:35 AM.
04-29-2008, 08:27 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: JS32 FO
Posts: 848
Originally Posted by mike734
You beat me to it Slice. I can't stand the sanctimonious BS from guys like UAL T38. He should be force to smoke pot every day for a month. I'm sure a probing and we would find all kinds of "laws" he has broken. And let's not even get started down the path of states rights or how the federal laws about this kind of drug use is constitutionally none of their business!
Now if you insist on defending yourself UAL T38, what about a guy who smokes in Amsterdam several months before interviewing for a job. Should they be excluded? They didn't break any law.
Quick de727ups, lock the thread before this thread degrades in to a thread about, DRUGS.
Now if you insist on defending yourself UAL T38, what about a guy who smokes in Amsterdam several months before interviewing for a job. Should they be excluded? They didn't break any law.
Quick de727ups, lock the thread before this thread degrades in to a thread about,
DRUGS.
04-30-2008, 08:34 AM
#28
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,319
Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer
Sorry about misquoting 12 hours, I was thinking military (where it is 12 hours).
No, I have never smoked weed. Ever. Nor have I driven drunk, had sex with a minor, or shoplifted.
Why? I'm a guy who follows the rules.
I would dissent with your view that society approves weed use, as most surveys still show a majority do not favor decriminalizing it. Since you think I "haven't heard," I assure you I listen most intently.
You feel that weed is of no consequence, but I would beg to differ. I watched friends in High School go down the tubes after they started smoking pot. I know that the flow of drug money causes crime and death, both in America, and south of the border.
You're probably 35 or younger, and in the last 20 years, the popular media has repeatedly portrayed pot as "OK," or acceptable. Your friends have probably used it. As such, you have been cultivated to find it socially acceptable.
I see it as one more avenue of muting or diminishing ambition, intellectual growth, and human potential. That's why I'm against it.
No, I have never smoked weed. Ever. Nor have I driven drunk, had sex with a minor, or shoplifted.
Why? I'm a guy who follows the rules.
I would dissent with your view that society approves weed use, as most surveys still show a majority do not favor decriminalizing it. Since you think I "haven't heard," I assure you I listen most intently.
You feel that weed is of no consequence, but I would beg to differ. I watched friends in High School go down the tubes after they started smoking pot. I know that the flow of drug money causes crime and death, both in America, and south of the border.
You're probably 35 or younger, and in the last 20 years, the popular media has repeatedly portrayed pot as "OK," or acceptable. Your friends have probably used it. As such, you have been cultivated to find it socially acceptable.
I see it as one more avenue of muting or diminishing ambition, intellectual growth, and human potential. That's why I'm against it.
I'm older than 35 actually, ex cold-warrior and senior military officer. The use of pot was well-condoned as far back as I can recall which is the 1970's...in fact it was more acceptable in the 70's and 80's then in the 90's and later (war on drugs, public awareness).
I know plenty of folks from high school who turned out just fine despite smoking an occasional joint. I can also think of a few who didn't turn out so good, but those were guys who probably would have found some way to screw up regardless.
Extensive dope smoking is definately bad for you, probably more so than cigarettes. It has all the effects you mentioned. Everything in moderation...
Weed is different from booze in that with prolonged use you do not recover quickly (or at all). I am NOT a proponent of legalization...then you would have pilots, truckers, doctors, etc. going about their business in a slightly impaired manner. Leaving it as a mild misdemeanor is appropriate so you can keep it out of places where it doesn't belong. But if an advertising exec, salesman, or janitor wants to toke up on Saturday night, I don't really care.
I'm sure the majority of americans don't want it legalized either, but I doubt they want to impose draconian penalties on young people who explore their boundaries a bit.
It is true that the wholesale illegal drug industry is a blight on our civilization, and that the pot trade is a small part of that.
Last edited by rickair7777; 04-30-2008 at 08:42 AM.
04-30-2008, 08:39 AM
#29
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,319
Originally Posted by DanC
My hypothetical question is when weed is legalize (and I believe it will be in my career) how many hours grass to glass?
I think it should remain mildly illegal to simplify keeping it out of safety-intensive workplaces (doctor, pilot, forklift driver, trucker, etc).
If it does get legalized (doubtful), it will probably still be banned at the federal level for many workers, including pilots.
04-30-2008, 09:39 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Originally Posted by rickair7777
The problem here is that unlike booze and even some narcotics, the effects of long-term extensive marijuana use DEFINATELY include reduced mental capacity, which may well be irreversible.
I think it should remain mildly illegal to simplify keeping it out of safety-intensive workplaces (doctor, pilot, forklift driver, trucker, etc).
If it does get legalized (doubtful), it will probably still be banned at the federal level for many workers, including pilots.
I think it should remain mildly illegal to simplify keeping it out of safety-intensive workplaces (doctor, pilot, forklift driver, trucker, etc).
If it does get legalized (doubtful), it will probably still be banned at the federal level for many workers, including pilots.
The findings of brain imaging techniques, such as CT scans consistently show an association between heavy drinking and physical brain damage, even in the absence of chronic liver disease or dementia.
Brain shrinking is especially extensive in the cortex of the frontal lobe2 - the location of higher cognitive faculties.
The vulnerability to this frontal lobe shrinkage increases with age.3 After 40 some of the changes my be irreversible [see below].
Repeated imaging of a group of alcoholics who continued drinking over a 5-year period showed progressive brain shrinkage that significantly exceeded normal age-related shrinkage. Moreover, the rate of shrinkage correlated with the amount of alcohol consumed.
Brain shrinking is especially extensive in the cortex of the frontal lobe2 - the location of higher cognitive faculties.
The vulnerability to this frontal lobe shrinkage increases with age.3 After 40 some of the changes my be irreversible [see below].
Repeated imaging of a group of alcoholics who continued drinking over a 5-year period showed progressive brain shrinkage that significantly exceeded normal age-related shrinkage. Moreover, the rate of shrinkage correlated with the amount of alcohol consumed.
Alcohol is also addictive whereas marijuania is not.
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