Tristanstar

Hello all,

I have been active in aviation all my life whether it was just dreaming about it or living it. I completed my private pilots certificate in April 2004. From there I attended Oklahoma State University and completed a Bachelor's in Aviation Science June of 2009. I'm currently Flight Instructing in Nebraska. As much as I love my students and Instructing, that's not where I ultimately want to be. My end goal has always been Corporate flying. I'm currently receiving training to be SIC in a KA90 (yes I know it's under 12.5, we have that ironed out as well). I'm hoping my SIC checkride goes well. With this all in mind though, I'd still like to keep my options open and if I had the opportunity to fly for the airlines or my goals changed, I'd like to be able to take advantage of it. I have 900 TT, 23 ME, and about 5 hours actual (80 simulated). I understand I have a lot to work on but what would be your recommendation of where to start if I decided to go the airline route?

Thanks,
Tristar

pokey9554

The King Air SIC horse has been beaten and re-beaten on this forum. Make sure you'll either be logging legitimate SIC time, or PIC.

I've flown both corporate and airline. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Also, once you fly corporate, it is much easier to transition to better corporate jobs. Moving from an airline to a corporate job is much more difficult. On the other hand, if you want to log the flight time required to meet insurance minimums for that dream GV job, you're going to have a hard time. I flew about 250 hours per year in the coporate world while I fly between 700-1000 per year at the airlines. If you enjoy sleeping in your own bed, spending time with your spouse, playing golf, seeing more impressive things than the Anheuser Busch neon sign in Newark, NJ, coporate is the way to go. It just might take longer to get the time you may need. There are success stories though.

I'm sure many others will chime in with valuable information. I have to go make dents in a runway now.

Chao!

rickair7777

Since you have a foot in the door with the King Air job, try that for a while. You will probably need 1500/300 to get a regional job anyway and the turbine time will help if you go that route.

Network and try to learn more about corporate. Assuming you are young, you can wait a little to make up your mind but as some point you should decide and focus aggressively on the direction you want to go. Plan your career as much as you can, don't let it plan you.

Also make sure that KA is operating under a part 135 certificate, that an SIC is REQUIRED per that 135 cert, and be sure that YOU are checked out and authorized under that certificate as well. Otherwise you CANNOT log right-seat time, you are just going for an airplane ride. Some companies try to sell non-pilot time as being loggable to entry level pilots like you, but if you show up at an airline interview with that in your logbook you will be laughed out of the building.

Another common scan that doesn't work is if the PIC is an MEI and you are planning on logging hundreds of hours of ME turbine time as dual received

What is legal is for you to just fly as PIC on non-revenue return/repositioning legs operated under part 91.

USMCFLYR

Tristanstar -

Hello from a fellow OSU graduate of the Aviation Program. Are the 'Flying Aggies' still alive and kicking?

I had the same aspirations as you it seems. I always saw myself in a corporate flight department or doing gov't flying after I got out of the military. No doubt that either road is long as full of set-backs as you will learn from the experience on this forum.

It certainly seems to be a truth that it is more important WHO you know than WHAT you know when dealing with the corporate side of aviation especially; so if you haven't started yet, it isn't to early to start networking!

Enjoy your training in the KA90 and make the most of any opportunity that comes of it. I'm starting training in a KA myself in a few months.

As far as information about the pros and cons of airline flying-vs-corporate flying, this forum is full of advice (always tempered with your own judgment and filter) and a wealth of knowledge. Almost any question that is on your mind right now has been discussed in depth before, so I encourage you to use the search function and type in some keywords and read the threads. Hopefully that will lead you to some more specific questions that address your particular concerns.

Good luck in the future.

USMCFLYR

Tristanstar

Yep, the aggies are still around! Unfortunately "sixty" was in repairs a lot while I was attending so I didn't get to fly her as much as I'd hoped but it was in the parade and made a few appearances on the front lawn outside the student union. The typical question was "how did you get it here?" ..our response.. "we flew it." Whats funny was how many people believed us.

Anywho, I will be sticking with the King Air thing for a while. Since I'm flight instructing in the same building, we're trying not to step on each bosses toes. It's a challenge and I wish I could fly it more but I'll take what I can get. I'm still in the process of training and teaching me out of the cessna thought process is a challenge but I'm excited. The more you move up in the aviation world, the thicker your books get! hehe

I definitely agree with the networking thing which is why I love being a part of aviation forums. You get to meet some really great people! My ultimate dream would be to fly Citation Xs or its equivalent but I'm always willing to consider every opportunity including the airlines.

Tristanstar

I had the same pressing questions about logging SIC in the King Air. I ended up asking them so much to clarify what they plan to define me as that the manager talked to the local FSDO. It's all worked out now...and yes it is part 135.

Excel

I must say, I am a corporate guy looking to get out and try 121 and I have had zero luck even sniffing an interview with any of the llc's/nationals/majors.... This is with 3 type ratings and 2000+ turnine pic. I would taylor your decisions to match what your long-term goals are. It is a lot easier to move up the corporate latter when you are already flying corporate, and it appears to work the same way in the 121 world... Good luck

snippercr

Maybe I have completely the wrong idea on how Corporate aviation works because this was my understanding: Most (if not ALL) corporate aviation jobs require 2-3000 hours of TT and probably 1000 hours of PIC Turbine. So to me in order to enter Corporate you needed to first get a considerable amount of TT as well as PIC Turbine time to even be considered. Then you had to manage a way in. Most seemed to require those 1000PIC Turbine to be in type which always begged the question - where does one get that in the first place?

My goal is ultimately corporate but I was under the impress I would have to spend a few years at the airlines until I could start logging PIC turbine time (IE, move to the left seat).

I am currently in the CFI stage of building hours and that is my goal/direction. To me, it just didnt seem like something you "entered" without spending quite a few at the airlines. I didnt know they could be mutually exclusive.

rickair7777

Airlines and corporate are mostly two separate tracks. It's possible to cross over, regionals do not normally lead to corporate jobs and corporate jobs do not normally lead to major airlines.

The term "corporate" covers a wide range. The upper end (the "career goal") is flying a large or mid cabin long-range jet like a Gulfstream. The entry level is usually something like a part 91 or 135 310, Caravan, or maybe King Air flying. One thing about corporate is you can often network while a CFI and take the next step at your home patch. After that would be citations, and so on. There is no clearly defined path and with good connections it's possible to skip steps if you (or your boss) can afford the type, and his insurance will go for it.

Major airlines prefer regional or military guys over corporate because they like folks who are used to to doing multiple legs, day in and day out. Some corporate pilots will fly to a great location, eat, drink, and golf on the boss's account, and then fly one leg home.

High-tier corporate employers prefer corporate pilots because airline guys are not used to doing a lot of preparation, flight-planning, fueling, concierge service, etc and may have a bare-minimum customer interaction skill set (Bu-Bye!). Also they generally recoil at the idea of doing lav service.

It is possible that a few thousand hours at a regional could help you bypass some corporate insurance requirements, but if your long-term goal is corporate you had better keep your networking going full-bore while doing the airline thing. Otherwise it might be hard to go back.

snippercr

Wow, very informative post rickair... I guess I was right in my first sentence, I DO have completely the wrong idea about corp. aviation. While I still will be indentured as a CFI for another year or so (or longer) I do have time to rethink this strategy.

My "Career goal" like you said are those mid to large cabin long range jobbies. I know I will have to spend some time in a caravan or light twin piston, shopping for steamed milk, getting the correct newspaper, cleaning cabins, etc. But I also like it because it is a bit more personal - I am not just shuttling 50 people from point A to point B. I at least know who is in the back.

The other thing, getting into corporate (even entry level) seems difficult. With the airlines, after you get your hours, you apply to the regionals. The regionals are known, they have websites where you apply and you know if they are hiring or not. The entry levels for corporate on the other hand seem so difficult to find and get in. I am not saying I am not willing to put the work in, I just dont know what to look for - especially since I didnt really know how things worked.

Thanks again for the input.

One last quick thing: Would you consider netjets and the fractional ownership "corporate"?