Resigned from flight training. Now what?
06-29-2011, 11:34 AM
#1
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Flight Instructor
Posts: 23
Resigned from flight training. Now what?
Hi all,
I recently resigned from 121 training during sim...2000 hour pilot, but only 52 multi..and four years instructing full time cfi and ii.
In a nutshell, I had never really used a flight director, save for playing around with it in some g1000 172s... flying the command bars wasnt the problem, it was setting up the flight director...I found myself continually turning to headings, climbing/descending without first turning the bug, setting the new altitude, forgetting to set vertical speed. Trying to do as much on my own as I could without overworking the pm. As workloads got higher--s/e missed approaches especially, I was overworking myself to get that fd set up correctly (after leaving toga mode to get on the next segment of the missed) and it was sloppy to say the least. I feel my instrument skills are good, but the fd was adding more workload. It felt like a burden rather than an aid. That is why I'm at home now. Was told, "At this time we're not willing to give you any extensions, but we'll give you the option to resign."
I felt pretty good with pilot monitoring, knew and could execute immediate actions with no problem, knew my flows well, knew my callouts, though i'd miss one now and then while taking atc instructions and was positionally aware. For me, it all goes back to my inexperience with the flight director.
Where do I go from here? I know I need to practice with the flight director for sure, but going back to full time flight instruction isn't a good option, especially since my job has since been filled. That and the idea of making very little money building more instructing time that isnt really going to do me any good in the long run when I know my problem was lack of experience with the flight director. I don't feel instructing is going to help me there.
For now, I'm going to be renting a duchess equipped with a flight director and work that issue out. Also getting my multi above 100...
I feel pretty disappointed myself that I was so set in my ways of raw data that I struggled to adapt. I'm not sure how this resignation is going to affect me finding another job. I failed my initial cfi oral exam in 2007, but that is my only fail. Of course I just resigned during training before MV. One speeding ticket, otherwise everything else on my record is good. For what it's worth, ground school went well for me as well.
Where do I go from here? Build multi time, maybe part time cfi? How is this going to affect my future marketability to employers? I want to work for an airline. I've been flying for 10 years, like many of us it defines me. I hate to air out my dirty laundry, but I'm truly uncertain of where to go from here. I feel like my career is doomed.
This sucks. Thanks all for any advice.
I recently resigned from 121 training during sim...2000 hour pilot, but only 52 multi..and four years instructing full time cfi and ii.
In a nutshell, I had never really used a flight director, save for playing around with it in some g1000 172s... flying the command bars wasnt the problem, it was setting up the flight director...I found myself continually turning to headings, climbing/descending without first turning the bug, setting the new altitude, forgetting to set vertical speed. Trying to do as much on my own as I could without overworking the pm. As workloads got higher--s/e missed approaches especially, I was overworking myself to get that fd set up correctly (after leaving toga mode to get on the next segment of the missed) and it was sloppy to say the least. I feel my instrument skills are good, but the fd was adding more workload. It felt like a burden rather than an aid. That is why I'm at home now. Was told, "At this time we're not willing to give you any extensions, but we'll give you the option to resign."
I felt pretty good with pilot monitoring, knew and could execute immediate actions with no problem, knew my flows well, knew my callouts, though i'd miss one now and then while taking atc instructions and was positionally aware. For me, it all goes back to my inexperience with the flight director.
Where do I go from here? I know I need to practice with the flight director for sure, but going back to full time flight instruction isn't a good option, especially since my job has since been filled. That and the idea of making very little money building more instructing time that isnt really going to do me any good in the long run when I know my problem was lack of experience with the flight director. I don't feel instructing is going to help me there.
For now, I'm going to be renting a duchess equipped with a flight director and work that issue out. Also getting my multi above 100...
I feel pretty disappointed myself that I was so set in my ways of raw data that I struggled to adapt. I'm not sure how this resignation is going to affect me finding another job. I failed my initial cfi oral exam in 2007, but that is my only fail. Of course I just resigned during training before MV. One speeding ticket, otherwise everything else on my record is good. For what it's worth, ground school went well for me as well.
Where do I go from here? Build multi time, maybe part time cfi? How is this going to affect my future marketability to employers? I want to work for an airline. I've been flying for 10 years, like many of us it defines me. I hate to air out my dirty laundry, but I'm truly uncertain of where to go from here. I feel like my career is doomed.
This sucks. Thanks all for any advice.
06-29-2011, 12:50 PM
#3
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 10
I took the CRJ Course from ATP
Its more money, but its a full FTD of the CRJ probably much like the one you were training on... It was a great program, if you have the funds i would recommend it...
Regionals are starting to pay to have their new hires go there (at least AE is currently sending new hires to it)
Its more money, but its a full FTD of the CRJ probably much like the one you were training on... It was a great program, if you have the funds i would recommend it...
Regionals are starting to pay to have their new hires go there (at least AE is currently sending new hires to it)
06-29-2011, 01:05 PM
#4
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Flight Instructor
Posts: 23
I actually have been considering the rj program at atp. I guess my thing is, if i spend a few thousand more, I could go to flight safety and get a type rating. But I've thought about it.
06-29-2011, 01:14 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 767 CA
Posts: 411
First step would be to order a copy of. Your PRIA records to see what your future employers will see.
It sounds like you've done a pretty fair self-assessment, and you're not blaming others, which is good. As long as you work to address the problem and can explain how you've learned from it and overcome it, I think you'll have no problem getting hired.
Just be honest and explain how 2,000 hours of watching other people fly was just enough to put you behind the 8-ball in the transition to the glass in the faster jet.
Maybe the RJ transition course at ATP if you've got the cash. That'd give you some CRJ glass simulator practice without the stress of a jeopardy event.
I wouldn't sweat it, you'll be fine.
Best of luck,
Str8
It sounds like you've done a pretty fair self-assessment, and you're not blaming others, which is good. As long as you work to address the problem and can explain how you've learned from it and overcome it, I think you'll have no problem getting hired.
Just be honest and explain how 2,000 hours of watching other people fly was just enough to put you behind the 8-ball in the transition to the glass in the faster jet.
Maybe the RJ transition course at ATP if you've got the cash. That'd give you some CRJ glass simulator practice without the stress of a jeopardy event.
I wouldn't sweat it, you'll be fine.
Best of luck,
Str8
06-29-2011, 01:19 PM
#6
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
Some questions that come to mind:
What type of aircraft were you training on?
What were you doing hand flying so much during training?
What type of autopilot experience do you have?
What was your PM doing when you were flying? You should be calling for EVERYTHING before reacting. It's their job to set it up for you... just slow down and remember that nothing needs to happen immediately. Only two things will kill you in a short period of time- explosive decompression and a cabin fire. Everything else is a fly the plane, keep things upright, slow down, think, and work your way through the appropriate checklist.
What type of aircraft were you training on?
What were you doing hand flying so much during training?
What type of autopilot experience do you have?
What was your PM doing when you were flying? You should be calling for EVERYTHING before reacting. It's their job to set it up for you... just slow down and remember that nothing needs to happen immediately. Only two things will kill you in a short period of time- explosive decompression and a cabin fire. Everything else is a fly the plane, keep things upright, slow down, think, and work your way through the appropriate checklist.
06-29-2011, 02:22 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
Some questions that come to mind:
What type of aircraft were you training on?
What were you doing hand flying so much during training?
What type of autopilot experience do you have?
What was your PM doing when you were flying? You should be calling for EVERYTHING before reacting. It's their job to set it up for you... just slow down and remember that nothing needs to happen immediately. Only two things will kill you in a short period of time- explosive decompression and a cabin fire. Everything else is a fly the plane, keep things upright, slow down, think, and work your way through the appropriate checklist.
What type of aircraft were you training on?
What were you doing hand flying so much during training?
What type of autopilot experience do you have?
What was your PM doing when you were flying? You should be calling for EVERYTHING before reacting. It's their job to set it up for you... just slow down and remember that nothing needs to happen immediately. Only two things will kill you in a short period of time- explosive decompression and a cabin fire. Everything else is a fly the plane, keep things upright, slow down, think, and work your way through the appropriate checklist.
06-29-2011, 05:35 PM
#8
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,297
Originally Posted by STR8NLVL
First step would be to order a copy of. Your PRIA records to see what your future employers will see.
1) FAA: You can get these from the FAA. But a training resignation will not appear here unless you failed a type ride.
2) Each previous employer: If you are still employed you can view your records. If you apply to another airline you stipulate that you get a copy of everything previous employers send in response to the PRIA request.
But if you are not employed I don't think you have the right to walk in and view those records (might be wrong).
Legally I think you cannot just obtain PRIA records from previous employers any time you like. You are only entitled to receive a copy of records they send to another potential employer.
But it doesn't matter what PRIA shows...you cannot pretend that you never attended 121 training, and you will have to explain what happened.
Originally Posted by STR8NLVL
It sounds like you've done a pretty fair self-assessment, and you're not blaming others, which is good. As long as you work to address the problem and can explain how you've learned from it and overcome it, I think you'll have no problem getting hired.
Originally Posted by STR8NLVL
Just be honest and explain how 2,000 hours of watching other people fly was just enough to put you behind the 8-ball in the transition to the glass in the faster jet.
Originally Posted by STR8NLVL
Maybe the RJ transition course at ATP if you've got the cash. That'd give you some CRJ glass simulator practice without the stress of a jeopardy event.
06-29-2011, 08:28 PM
#9
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Flight Instructor
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
Some questions that come to mind:
What type of aircraft were you training on?
What were you doing hand flying so much during training?
What type of autopilot experience do you have?
What was your PM doing when you were flying? You should be calling for EVERYTHING before reacting. It's their job to set it up for you... just slow down and remember that nothing needs to happen immediately. Only two things will kill you in a short period of time- explosive decompression and a cabin fire. Everything else is a fly the plane, keep things upright, slow down, think, and work your way through the appropriate checklist.
What type of aircraft were you training on?
What were you doing hand flying so much during training?
What type of autopilot experience do you have?
What was your PM doing when you were flying? You should be calling for EVERYTHING before reacting. It's their job to set it up for you... just slow down and remember that nothing needs to happen immediately. Only two things will kill you in a short period of time- explosive decompression and a cabin fire. Everything else is a fly the plane, keep things upright, slow down, think, and work your way through the appropriate checklist.
Was at Piedmont, so Dash 8...I do have autopilot experience, but none with a flight director, save for 3 hours in a c340 and 4 hours in a cj3, all while using the a/p.
As far as in the sim, I was told to try to do as much as I possibly could do as pilot flying because the pilot monitoring had too much other stuff to worry about, especially to be setting the fd for me. Perhaps I just tried to do too much? I dont know. On approach, procedure and callouts were black and white. PF sets app mode, pm sets altitudes. Once on approach I can fly the approach, and really the flight director makes flying an approach really easy.
Looking back, it was stuff like calling 4 for 5 altitude select, but then forgetting to set vertical speed or ias, or I would wheel in vert speed, nothing happens, try it again, it goes too far wouldn't get to my desired setting, so now I'm screwing around with the fgc while hand flying, trying to get the fd to tell me the correct info while trying to descend to a published altitude after crossing a iaf, for example. That kind of thing burned me, especially when we got to single engine flying. Really that is it. The flight director got in my head so much it really did become a burden for me.
06-29-2011, 08:57 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 767 CA
Posts: 411
Originally Posted by STR8NLVL
First step would be to order a copy of. Your PRIA records to see what your future employers will see.
1) FAA: You can get these from the FAA. But a training resignation will not appear here unless you failed a type ride.
2) Each previous employer: If you are still employed you can view your records. If you apply to another airline you stipulate that you get a copy of everything previous employers send in response to the PRIA request.
But if you are not employed I don't think you have the right to walk in and view those records (might be wrong).
Legally I think you cannot just obtain PRIA records from previous employers any time you like. You are only entitled to receive a copy of records they send to another potential employer.
But it doesn't matter what PRIA shows...you cannot pretend that you never attended 121 training, and you will have to explain what happened.
Originally Posted by STR8NLVL
It sounds like you've done a pretty fair self-assessment, and you're not blaming others, which is good. As long as you work to address the problem and can explain how you've learned from it and overcome it, I think you'll have no problem getting hired.
Originally Posted by STR8NLVL
Just be honest and explain how 2,000 hours of watching other people fly was just enough to put you behind the 8-ball in the transition to the glass in the faster jet.
Originally Posted by STR8NLVL
Maybe the RJ transition course at ATP if you've got the cash. That'd give you some CRJ glass simulator practice without the stress of a jeopardy event.
As to having trouble getting hired now, I have a good friend that had this EXACT thing happen to him and he was hired at PSA two months ago without a problem. He just explained in the interview what happened and they moved on with the interview and offered him the job. A resignation is not near as damaging as a bust.
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