MoZak18

I am just wondering what the current demographics/atmosphere is out there for test pilots working for a business jet manufacturer like Cessna, Beechcraft, Bombardier, etc. and what kind of route a civilian can take to get to such a position. Before anyone writes it off and says there's no way without military experience (as I've seen across the internet), I have to say that's not quite true, at least not these days. A friend working at Bombardier in Witchita told me that the test pilots were roughly half civilian and half military.

A brief bio, I'll be graduating with a degree in electrical engineering in May. I've been instructing for about 4 years now, stand at about 1400 hrs, and have just started doing contract flying in Lears (got about 5 hrs turbine now). I also right-seat at CAE and plan on getting a couple more types and do contract flying for a few years before attempting this route.

It seems logical that a manufacturer would see an individual flying related products (i.e. business jets) as more marketable for such a position, assuming they had an engineering degree, but is this actually true? I have considered the military route, but that would necessitate corrective surgery on my eyes, plus pilot slots for officer training school are just not that abundant in the air force or navy, and all in all military aviation seems to be fading, mainly in light of UAVs.

A secondary question for any of those in the industry....who develops crew procedures, SOPs, checklists, etc. for a new aircraft? It doesn't quite sound like a test pilot's duty, then again it seems like someone with pilot experience and an engineering background would be required.

Any answers would be greatly appreciated!

rickair7777

Test pilots are usually engineers by training. But they also have extensive flight experience in similar aircraft to what they will be testing and have completed test pilot school.

Military test pilot school is hard to get into because it is competitive. Civilian TPS is even harder to get because it costs around $200K.

Most (all?) civilian track TP get send to TPS by their employer. I suppose yu culd pay for it yourself if you had the money, but I doubt they let wet commercial attend...I imagine you need some flight experience for the safety's sake at least.

So you would basically have to pursue a civilian pilot career track until you obtained several thousand hours of turbojet PIC, then apply for test pilot jobs. You might also need some engineering work experience in there too.




Experienced pilots, not usually engineers based on the guys I know. I'm sure the TPs get involved too.

Flight Test

It's one of those mean little facts in life that if you do not gather your NTPS training through the Air Force or Navy, or happen to be rich enough to spend a million at NTPS Mojave, then your chances of being a full-up test pilot for a bizjet manufacturer are almost nil. It can be done though, and I currently know several such persons. Hardly makes sense to spend a million to obtain a $90k job, and but that is the only reliable civvy route. Last I checked NTPS at Mojave was charging a million for their program.

There is another way to get into flight testing, which is to enter it through aero engineering and work your way up from a desk job. That is what I currently do. My job title is Flight Test Engineer, not test pilot. But I am the last line of engineering before the test pilots, and I have no NTPS at all. Anyone can do what I did with a little perseverance and effort. And working as an FTE will quite possibly lead to flying duties in time. Many FTEs fly as often as the test pilots, and are treated as SIC test pilots for all practical matters. All flight time helps in the cause of getting a test pilot job, but a ton of jet time flying 121/91 will not really help. You need the science background to know what to do. That is better served by either test pilot school, or aero engineering as second choice, although far less desirable option.

Flight Test

NTPS Mojave

Course Schedule and Costs

Test Pilot/Flight Test Engineer Professional Course - Fixed and Rotary Wing (51 weeks)

$452,000/eng
$918,000/pilot

January 3, 2012 - December 14, 2012 (Class 12A)
June 18, 2012 - June 14, 2013 (Class 12B)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Note:
"eng" means Flight Test Engineer (FTE).
"pilot" means Flight Test Pilot.

tomgoodman

True story: Two guys flew on the F-5 joint test force; one went on to become Lockheed's chief test pilot, the other became a Delta captain. At a reunion, the Delta guy said: "Boy, I'd sure like to fly the F-22." The Lockheed guy replied: "What? You've already got the best job in the world!"
Maybe he was kidding, maybe not.

MoZak18

Flight Test, you said you know several such persons that have gone this route, could you tell me more about them? You also mentioned flight test engineering....a friend I know that works at Bombardier works as a flight test engineer, and although they currently are not hiring, he's put in my resume for similar work (currently avionics and propulsion). I would think that 1000-1500 hrs turbine time and several type ratings with my engineering education would make me a more attractive candidate, I'm just wondering why you disagree.

I also know of someone (through a friend) who is an electrical engineer and worked as a flight test engineer for Bombardier and got to fly in the global express testing the avionics (and that's without any pilot experience). It seems like being an EE may be more desirable for work like this these days since avionics is a very hot topic on aircraft now and it is continuously evolving. AE on the other hand seems to fading from what I've seen (less opportunity for jobs) probably because a lot of the "black magic" has been discovered over the past 100 years (just look at the difference between a 1960s C172 and a 2005 C172; the airframe's the same but the instrument panel is totally different!). The friend that put my resume in for Bombardier is an AE, however, his work is mainly mechanical engineering; landing gear, brakes, etc.

I am familiar with the different test pilot schools, such as NTPS in California, and ones in the UK and France. I don't think anyone really goes there and pays for it, and by no means do I plan on doing that. However, to go this route, I figure that I would have to go through it at some point. Just curious what kind of credentials that civilians sent by their employers have going in there.....I very much doubt someone with a few hundred hours recip with a CPL would be considered, even if he was a seasoned engineer!

Thanks for all the replies by the way!

MoZak18

Just to comment on tomgoodman's post....he may have been telling the truth! Test pilot jobs aren't what they used to be. They're tightly scripted, mundane in many cases, don't pay that much, but yet are highly competitive. In one case, a friend of mine told me that he did some flight testing work, and all they did was shut down the engines of the aircraft, descend, and hope they would restart at a lower altitude and note that altitude! Another friend mentioned that someone he knew was selected to be a test pilot in the military flying helicopters, and was selected since they were extremely methodical (i.e. following checklists). Makes me wonder why I bother attempting to go this route....then again this type of experience opens up a lot of opportunities.

Flight Test

Did you read this thread? This topic comes up every so often. Nothing new... This is not a very good time to get into test piloting. The jobs are few and far between, and only the cream of the military and civilian test pilots are getting the good jobs now. It should pick up in a few years. Bizjets are still not selling all that well.

Civilian Test Pilot Opportunities

MoZak18

I actually did read that thread, along with many others from this and other forums. Was just looking for more solid/specific answers from people in the industry. Like I said, I was going to attempt an FTE position at Bombardier but saw they weren't hiring. Same with Cessna, in fact, they laid off quite a few people not too long ago. Corporate is opening up however, so that may be the best way to go....

Flight Test

You sound like pretty good material for flight test so if I were you I would just apply. They will pass over you almost certainly, but it never hurts to try. Don't expect much, and if you are low on actual engineering experience of any kind, then be willing to work up from something within the company for a couple of years before trying again for flight test. Once upon a time I drove CAD all day, and when flight test posted some internal openings I hopped on it not expecting very much. I had to complete with every other FT wannabee in the company and there were some humdingers, but somehow I prevailed, and honestly I have no idea why. I suspect in hindsight they knew I was an avid piston pilot and the company at the time was interested in making test pilots from scratch. I am almost certain that is what it was, because the day I got transferred the boss in flight test brought me in and asked, you want to be a test pilot RIGHT? I said Yessir, I surely do- and just about fainted. That was in 2008 and after that I sort of had my foot in the door because as long as you know how the game works you can just keep playing the field. That sounds cheesy but it's the truth. Fall in love with the idea and you will become a test pilot. Then only time can separate you, and there will not be a lot of that with any luck. It's mostly hard work though. Most engineers who can fly jets can do it, you just need to mold yours skills to the task and work the field.

Do you have your instructor certs?
Have you got any flight dynamics, aerodynamics, aerospace history, and other similar textbooks at home?
Do you fly every chance you get?
Are you willing to accept a CAD job or some-such to get your foot in the door at the company?
Are you willing to relocate anywhere?
Are you willing to maybe never make it to the left seat at all?
Can you put up with entire years of desk work just to advance to flying right seat occasionally?

These are some things to think about.