Hello

I am a 19 year old sophomore university student attending a university in Northern California studying criminal justice. I have been interested in aviation since I was very young. My uncle is currently a pilot for American Airlines and my grandfather was a pilot in WW2. My grandfather flew for Pan Am as a Boeing 314 Clipper captain. In addition, he was one of the first men to fly a Boeing 747. Unfortunately, his career ended in 1971 as he was the Captain of the Pan Am San Francisco flight 845.

Family members claim that he was not responsible for the accident and that 1. He was told the runway was 1,000 feet longer than it actually was. 2. The engines were underperformed by 200-300 feet & Boeing could not inform the NTSB why. 3. The plane was overloaded for the runway by 11,000lbs. My Grandfather asked SFO about runway length, PanAm and Boeing about weight for runway 1R. They all gave him false information. It shouldn't have been able to take off.

If anyone has studied the accident and has a different opinion about it I would appreciate if you shared your opinion, as I have not discussed the accident with anyone outside my family.

I want to become a commercial airliner pilot and or go into the military and become a fighter pilot. Unfortunately I have only taken 1 introductory private pilots class. I need advice on if you recommend that I transfer to a Aeronautical University, and what are the pros and cons to transferring to one. I currently have a 2.7 GPA at my university and can afford to transfer to an aeronautical university such as embry riddle.

Thanks,

Clipper88.

 

Keep up your field of studies and learn to fly from an fbo or small flight school. The aviation degree is not helpful, nobody cares to honest. The outside degree will give you more options especially in a downturn.

 

Clipper,

Welcome to the forum. Kind of an unusual first post but since you asked for advice, I'll give you a little bit.

First let me say that I'm sorry to hear of the unfortunate set of events that let to the end of your Grandfather's flying career. I have studied a little on this accident and, in my opinion, quite frankly, he is lucky that he did not kill everyone on board that plane. There were many other factors leading to this accident that you did not mention in your original post, that are huge contributing factors to this mishap. I suggest you do a little self study and come to your own conclusion, no matter how much the truth may hurt.

Secondly, if you truly desire a career in aviation, either in the military or as a civilian, you need to learn that the buck stops with you, the Captain, the Pilot in Command, the one who signed for the airplane and takes responsibility. The Captain is responsible for the safety of the crew, passengers, ground crew, and most of all, for the safe operation of his aircraft. You can't go into this career thinking you can blame anyone who gives you false information. You had better check and double check all info, especially when so many lives are at stake.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you asked for it.

 

I'll just add a second to what Hawk said about responsibility.
I'll also supply a link to help you with that suggested 'self-study'.

http://www.fss.aero/accident-reports...1-07-30-US.pdf

Even if you took the time to read the full mishap investigation, you still might not understand the concept that the PIC is responsible since are so new to your own study in the aviation field. Unfortunately, close family are often not the best sources of accurate information.

I hope this sheds some light for you on the event and it is something that you might keep in the back of your mind if you do progress down the road to a professional career in aviation (of any flavor).

 

I have been told by many people that he was very lucky he managed to land the plane without anyone dieing. Yes, I completely agree with you, the pilot in command is always the one at fault. However, I still believe the individuals who gave him false information were at fault as well.

 

I mainly came to this forum seeking advice on if it is worth transferring to a university with an aeronautical program. I have been researching UND and have read that pilots who attend an aeronautical university are allowed to fly commercially with 1,000 hours of experience, where as regular pilots have to attain 1,500 hours. Is this true? I read something similar to this in one of the most recent "flight" magazines but can't find the article online.

I also like the idea of being surrounded by people who share the same interest and have similar goals as me. Currently, I am attending a university in Northern California and haven't met anyone else who is interested in becoming a pilot. The majority of students are still struggling to deremine what their major is going to be.

 

Family members claim that he was not responsible for the accident and that 1. He was told the runway was 1,000 feet longer than it actually was. 2. The engines were underperformed by 200-300 feet & Boeing could not inform the NTSB why. 3. The plane was overloaded for the runway by 11,000lbs. My Grandfather asked SFO about runway length, PanAm and Boeing about weight for runway 1R. They all gave him false information. It shouldn't have been able to take off.

Just out of curiosity. Do you know why the V speeds weren't recalculated?

 

You seem like a nice person, so I offer this advice:

Your family is heavily emotionally invested in this accident and the facts surrounding it. No matter what false info was given, the PIC is ALWAYS responsible for things in their control. That accident is unfortunate, but could have been much worse. Take a good look at the report, but put yourself in an outsiders perspective.

UND and ER are overpriced and overhyped for the product you get. You can easily obtain the same thing through a mom and pop flight school or a part 141 professional flight school. Get a degree in something that you can do when you get furloughed. Nobody is going to care if you have a business degree or an aviation management degree when it comes to getting hired by the airlines. Also give the military some consideration.

Best of luck.

 

It is called a chain of events.
You haven't bothered to read the NTSB report to which I provided a link have you?

There are NUMEROUS threads devoted to the question of whether UND is worth the cost. All it takes is the time to search for, and read, the existing threads. Try the search box and type in UND (titles only) and see what comes up.