To be a CFI or not to be a CFI?
11-03-2014, 11:25 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 834
True Ninja, and as a matter of disclosure, my situation was not based on money and I did not need to CFI to build time. I primarily earned the CFI as a method of professional development, and so I could pass on my experience; and in some ways to keep others from making the mistakes I did!
11-03-2014, 12:38 PM
#33
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,544
This is untrue.
I had a conversation recently with a recruiter from a flight school, looking for experienced instructors, who was paying over seventy thousand. The training wage was over forty thousand, and they devoted two months to training new hires in their methods, practices, and procedures. Student load was quite low per instructor. Office hours. Schedule set out a year in advance. Full benefits.
This wasn't simuflite or flight safety. This was an established school instructing in light single engine piston equipment, and doing very well at it.
I had a conversation recently with a recruiter from a flight school, looking for experienced instructors, who was paying over seventy thousand. The training wage was over forty thousand, and they devoted two months to training new hires in their methods, practices, and procedures. Student load was quite low per instructor. Office hours. Schedule set out a year in advance. Full benefits.
This wasn't simuflite or flight safety. This was an established school instructing in light single engine piston equipment, and doing very well at it.
11-03-2014, 12:44 PM
#34
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 36
Your initial instructor certificate is always done with the FSDO, unless the FSDO is too busy to accommodate your needs. At that point, the FSDO will assign a DPE to do your check ride. Unless the school you attend has signing authority, which is pretty rare (and expensive).
CFI Guy is correct. The majority of your CFI work is self study. I'm sure you have CFI friends who can give you guidance during this self study phase. I would not even entertain the idea of jumping into the airplane until you have thoroughly completed your ground study/preparations.
You can accomplish the CFI relatively cheap if you're smart about it. If you decide to jump into these puppy mills to get your CFI, well, pay up. I think it would benefit you to talk with a CFI buddy. Or ask questions on the forums. At the end of the day, what you need to know is in the CFI PTS, which is substantial in your knowledge base.
Getting the MEI first is an option. But I think it's a really poor option. Say you pass your MEI. Guess what? Just about EVERYONE starts in a single. That makes you a MEI without many students. Not too many people are getting their multi these days now that the whole airline career is all but a waste of time to most people to chase after. So the action is at the single-engine level.
CFI Guy is correct. The majority of your CFI work is self study. I'm sure you have CFI friends who can give you guidance during this self study phase. I would not even entertain the idea of jumping into the airplane until you have thoroughly completed your ground study/preparations.
You can accomplish the CFI relatively cheap if you're smart about it. If you decide to jump into these puppy mills to get your CFI, well, pay up. I think it would benefit you to talk with a CFI buddy. Or ask questions on the forums. At the end of the day, what you need to know is in the CFI PTS, which is substantial in your knowledge base.
Getting the MEI first is an option. But I think it's a really poor option. Say you pass your MEI. Guess what? Just about EVERYONE starts in a single. That makes you a MEI without many students. Not too many people are getting their multi these days now that the whole airline career is all but a waste of time to most people to chase after. So the action is at the single-engine level.
The main issue is cost, regardless of if I go to an accelerated school or just pick a random one I have to pay lodging for the entire time Im there. MEI I can do here and at fuel cost, then add a CFI on in a fixed gear airplane here.
11-03-2014, 01:02 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 360
Stef,
Take heed of the fact the the overwhelming majority of the prep for your CFI is ground-based. You'll be surprised at how much you have forgotten, or didn't really know in the first place (happens to all of us). Lesson plans are a PITA, and time consuming, but you need to do them--and you don't need to go to All-ATP to do it.
Once you've done the studying, you need to practice teaching on the ground. Your CFI exam will spend as much, if not more time, on being a CFI on the ground as it will in the plane. My CFI checkride was only 1.5 on the Hobbs. The rest was in the classroom.
The key here is to line all the ducks up in a row so that as you are peaking in your academic studies and ground-prep, you can get in the plane and knock it out in short order. Bare in mind that you can always rent a plane, fly solo, and practice all the maneuvers on your own until you are ready for a CFI to come in and fine-tune your skills.
As for the idea of getting the ME rating first, I'd have to agree that while it's possible, it's not the best idea. Not only will not be able to put it to much use right away, but the FSDO may be a little harder on you. Besides, if you are looking to go the airlines, you won't need it with your overall ME experience.
Take heed of the fact the the overwhelming majority of the prep for your CFI is ground-based. You'll be surprised at how much you have forgotten, or didn't really know in the first place (happens to all of us). Lesson plans are a PITA, and time consuming, but you need to do them--and you don't need to go to All-ATP to do it.
Once you've done the studying, you need to practice teaching on the ground. Your CFI exam will spend as much, if not more time, on being a CFI on the ground as it will in the plane. My CFI checkride was only 1.5 on the Hobbs. The rest was in the classroom.
The key here is to line all the ducks up in a row so that as you are peaking in your academic studies and ground-prep, you can get in the plane and knock it out in short order. Bare in mind that you can always rent a plane, fly solo, and practice all the maneuvers on your own until you are ready for a CFI to come in and fine-tune your skills.
As for the idea of getting the ME rating first, I'd have to agree that while it's possible, it's not the best idea. Not only will not be able to put it to much use right away, but the FSDO may be a little harder on you. Besides, if you are looking to go the airlines, you won't need it with your overall ME experience.
11-03-2014, 03:19 PM
#36
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,124
It was. It's too good to be true for an entry level position, and they were seeking experienced aviators, preferably with charter and airline backgrounds. Their target recruit had several years of airline experience, for the wage most likely disaffected regional F/O's who wanted to be home more, wanted the increase in wage, and didn't want to wait any longer for an upgrade.
Such locations are not the norm, of course, but there are such facilities out there. They prefer substantial instruction given, and they're fairly selective about who they hire. I spent about four hours with them a few days ago, got a tour of the facilities, met some of their key people. A very professional operation, I thought. I've seen similar operations doing the same work, and I've seen a lot worse. Their people seemed quite happy; they had employees in the 12-20 year range working for them, one just retiring, who were very happy, and the gentleman with whom I spent the most time talking thought it quite ideal for his family situation. He plans to stay there for the long term, and I can't blame him one bit.
Such locations are not the norm, of course, but there are such facilities out there. They prefer substantial instruction given, and they're fairly selective about who they hire. I spent about four hours with them a few days ago, got a tour of the facilities, met some of their key people. A very professional operation, I thought. I've seen similar operations doing the same work, and I've seen a lot worse. Their people seemed quite happy; they had employees in the 12-20 year range working for them, one just retiring, who were very happy, and the gentleman with whom I spent the most time talking thought it quite ideal for his family situation. He plans to stay there for the long term, and I can't blame him one bit.
11-03-2014, 06:31 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: Pipers & RV-12
Posts: 236
11-04-2014, 07:59 AM
#38
Need More Flight Time!
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Flight Simulator X
Posts: 400
If I were you, I'd get my CFI, CFII, then MEI. Fast money is at the CFI level. If you are smart about this, you'll heed the advice of doing your ground work first before you even engage an instructor for the flight portion. CFI is about teaching. If you can't explain and transfer knowledge, I don't care if you're Chuck Yaeger, you are going to fail as a flight instructor. This means you have a LOT of ground work to do, which can be done at a bare minimum of cost to you.
And I would take the check ride at the FSDO. If you're prepared and ready, you're not going to get the pink slip. I walked into the FSDO knowing that CFI certificate was mine and all the time spent with the inspector was a formality because I studied hard and meticulously prepared. 4 hours later it was a done deal. I'd like to say that the CFI I used for ground preparation helped but that would be a lie. His biggest contribution was signing the endorsement in my logbook. The rest I figured out all by myself and am considered one of the better instructors at the flight school I operate out of. I'm not saying this to toot my own horn. I'm just demonstrating that you can do about 90% of the CFI all by yourself. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
11-04-2014, 03:52 PM
#39
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 36
I don't know your market so if you feel the MEI is going to net you more cash after you get it then go for that first. Clearly money is an issue for you. Personally, I don't know of anyone who started flight training in a multi-engine. Frankly, I don't think any flight school offers this as the recommended starting point. Thus, getting that MEI, while at fuel cost, may be useless. What this means is that you'll spend more money to add the single-engine, before you even make a dime.
If I were you, I'd get my CFI, CFII, then MEI. Fast money is at the CFI level. If you are smart about this, you'll heed the advice of doing your ground work first before you even engage an instructor for the flight portion. CFI is about teaching. If you can't explain and transfer knowledge, I don't care if you're Chuck Yaeger, you are going to fail as a flight instructor. This means you have a LOT of ground work to do, which can be done at a bare minimum of cost to you.
And I would take the check ride at the FSDO. If you're prepared and ready, you're not going to get the pink slip. I walked into the FSDO knowing that CFI certificate was mine and all the time spent with the inspector was a formality because I studied hard and meticulously prepared. 4 hours later it was a done deal. I'd like to say that the CFI I used for ground preparation helped but that would be a lie. His biggest contribution was signing the endorsement in my logbook. The rest I figured out all by myself and am considered one of the better instructors at the flight school I operate out of. I'm not saying this to toot my own horn. I'm just demonstrating that you can do about 90% of the CFI all by yourself. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
If I were you, I'd get my CFI, CFII, then MEI. Fast money is at the CFI level. If you are smart about this, you'll heed the advice of doing your ground work first before you even engage an instructor for the flight portion. CFI is about teaching. If you can't explain and transfer knowledge, I don't care if you're Chuck Yaeger, you are going to fail as a flight instructor. This means you have a LOT of ground work to do, which can be done at a bare minimum of cost to you.
And I would take the check ride at the FSDO. If you're prepared and ready, you're not going to get the pink slip. I walked into the FSDO knowing that CFI certificate was mine and all the time spent with the inspector was a formality because I studied hard and meticulously prepared. 4 hours later it was a done deal. I'd like to say that the CFI I used for ground preparation helped but that would be a lie. His biggest contribution was signing the endorsement in my logbook. The rest I figured out all by myself and am considered one of the better instructors at the flight school I operate out of. I'm not saying this to toot my own horn. I'm just demonstrating that you can do about 90% of the CFI all by yourself. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
The FSDO here has a 90% fail rate. I'll try my hardest to be as prepared as possible but I won't be suprised if I do. My boyfriend did the year long 141 school CFI program here and took his checkride with an inspector. The inspector told him at the begginibg of the checkride there was a 1 in 10 chance he would pass today. He got through the 6 hour oral, then was failed during the flight portion. The inspector explained to him he believed failing is part of the learning process. He came back the next week and did the same thing he did before and was passed.
11-04-2014, 04:37 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 834
Stef, Even the MEI could get you an immediate return, in making the cut for a job. Why not seek a job with only an MEI, not an instructing job, but a flying job. As you will discover it is a significant undertaking and also demonstrates a real commitment to your future employer, not to mention the knowledge and new skills and abilities you will gain. It is a bonafide CFI as any other. Anyone can get a Commercial, Instrument, Multi given enough time and money; not really the case with becoming a flight instructor. BTW, What twin would you plan on using?
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