LOL! After getting legally raped by UAL management, I can't see that the pilot/management relationship is any better at UAL.

 

Good point. At least the job would be on the right side of the clock and not destroying his health at the same time. As someone else mentioned, the company certainly does not have to love you. One thing is for sure...there is no guesswork as to where a pilot stands in the eyes of UPS management. Or any other employee at that company for that matter.

 

well in my current job I fly across 9 time zones on regular basis. And If I go back to United I will be flying the A-320. I will be so junior that I will be flying redeys all the time to the east coast. And that is if I am lucky. I might end up based on the east coast and have to commute from LAX on a regular basis. That would be a killer. Now being that I am junior and turning 37 soon I feel I would have to bid up to the 767 as soon as I could for $$ for retirement contributions. Even as a line holder on the 767 out of LAX you will be doing redyes all the time, when I was a 767 line holder in the good days I was flying 7 a month. And hey if I am senior enough when I am much older I will be flying the 777 or the 747 and guess what? all fly the backside of the clock. I can't beleive I am having this conversation. I was hired in my 20's at UAL and was told I would be a capt in 3 years. LOL


OK as far as the employee relations go....I do not see what the difference is between UPS and most other airlines except SWA. At united there is a war, at delta there is a war, usair etc. Please tell me what the war is about at UPS. I need to know. I am not looking for my company to love me, I just want the decent paycheck to clear month after month.

 

Maybe I am naive. A lot of folks who have been at UPS for a long time gripe the same way you do. I've never met any that aren't thanful for the job though. I don't see what you are talking about. The training I've received as a newhire FE and when I upgraded to FO was phenomenol--Much better than any training program I had in the USAF. UPS has taken care of me during two family emergencies. I'm making well over 100k in my second year and I feel like I've been stealing from the company.

I've never met my supervisor at UPS. I know he is one of the CPs only because our computer system tells me his name whenever I log on. The schedulers have been polite and professional and the folks at the UPS gateways are only concerned with how long it takes you to block out after you are loaded. It's not hard to do the job and go home and not interact with anyone in mgt. I could not care less what someone in mgt thinks of pilots.

I listen to other folks though. I am suspicious of the company. I'm waiting for the sky to fall but it hasn't in the nearly 2 years I've been here. As far as the job effecting your health, I don't see that either. I gained a little bit of weight after being hired but I attribute that to eating out a lot. You have to be disciplined in regards to sleep. It's easy to skip a day of rest when flip flopping schedules between work and time off. I can't function that way and I wonder how some of these 50 year olds enjoy life when they get most of their sleep during the sort.

I think the secret to enjoying a career at UPS is to be disciplined. At least for me I have to work out 3-4 times a week. When I get home at 9 am on a Saturday morning after flying all night I politely tell my wife that she has the kids and that I am going to bed. I usually can be functional after 4 hours of sleep and that enables me to be ready to sleep that night as well. You also have to be disciplined when it comes to bidding. I think a lot of guys at UPS get SJS or BJS (Shiney Jet/Big Jet Syndrome). The MD-11 guys are gone for long stretches and the 757 domestic guys fly a lot of legs. If you don't like being gone from home or flying a lot at night then bid the DC-8. Schedules and aircraft usage change but my point is that you have to find your niche. I came here thinking I wanted to fly intl, but have since changed my mind after seeing how great the domestic side is. Some intl guys can't stand the though of sitting the sort.

CRGOK is entitled to his opinion and I am willing to hear it since he had 10 years at UPS. But don't be duped to thinking that UPS is not one of the best jobs anywhere because it is. If you need your ego stroked and want to flirt with FA then this may not be the best place. But if you like a stable career with a lot of money and plenty of time off then UPS is it. But, again, maybe I am naive. The old dudes here tell me I'll change my mind once I learn the company. I keep waiting and it's been almost 2 years.

IMO choosing to go to a bankrupt carrier like United, or an upstart that is not making money like Jetblue, is insane. What is it that you need from a company? If it's a paycheck, variety of flying, great mx, stability, and unmatched benefits then UPS is it. And no I am not mgt.

 

thanks for the responce. I interview soon. Cant wait !!!

 

Well, Lil J, I certainly can not dispute what you say. I too was able to make things work...do my job, enjoy the money and go home. When I started with ups the highest paid captain's were only making 80K per year. Thanks to the union and the support of the membership that number was at 200K by the time that I left. I have many friends at ups that hate the job but love the money. Post 911, things are different, however, I would have still left. I was not as fortunate as you. By the end of my 10 years with the company my health was failing...sick much of the time, I never felt rested and it cost me a marriage. Each person is different and many of my friends love working at ups. The people are not the problem...the company and the schedule was my problem. I was always SDF domestic and most likely could have made my life better by moving to SDF Z, but I had to make the choice that was right for me as we all do. However, your distrust of the company is founded...watch your back. I remember a DC-8 CA that I flew with retiring one morning. Just in from a morning DFW flight and I asked him what he was going to do with his retirement. His answer...jumpseat home on a DC-8 and try to forget that he worked at ups. Pretty much summed it up.

 

My $ .02 I've had the opportunity to pick the brains of fellow F/Os in the MD-11 that left UAL or AA for FedEx. Mind you--it is a very small sampling but here are the results with a 50% probability of error. The only one who said they missed the pax life was a married guy who likes to play single with the FAs (or maybe the FA guys he didn't specify). Most said the domestic flying was a bit easier at the pax carriers but the international schedule was similar to a bit better at FedEx.

 

This one might be too close to call. True, cargo has been on an upswing as of late, while legacy carriers have suffered. But I think a lot of guys in our business take a fairly short view of this. They look back at the performance of a company over the last 3 or 4 years and try to project that into the next 20 or 30. I think that window is a little short. UPS and FedEx are great companies to work for, for now. Whether or not that will will be true in 5 or 10 years is anybody's guess.

Also, the question of "QOL" has been brought up several times. When you spend half your time on the road, QOL on the road encompasses a major component of your overall QOL. Back-of-the-clock flying isn't for everybody. You might want to look into the kinds of schedules you'll be flying for the first 5 years at UPS.

Regardless of which path you choose, about every 5 or 10 years you'll be certain you chose the wrong one.

 

Ain't that the truth !!!

 

True and True.