Once again, you are missing the point...

So, let us start with the reasoning behind the extended duty day for double crews.

First, there is more than adequate ability to sleep when you are not the operating crew.

Second, it is not about sandbox flights. They have never been the reason for the extended days. We have always been able to do those in under 18.

Third, it is about the fact that K4 is still very much a pure ad-hoc airline. Much more of our business model than ACMI or CMI. And, very often, those ad-hoc flights are a one time trip to a one time place. It is a better deal to all involved to double crew to a place where the crew can rest and the airplane can keep moving, than to have to commercial crews in and out to cover both legs of the flight. The crew makes more money in less time and the company avoids the logistics issues with cross commercialling crews.

Fourth, as a company policy, every time that a flight is conducted that is going to stretch the crew duty day, a multi department risk assessment is conducted for that flight. If all of the factors, including fatigue, do not allow it to be done reasonably, the whole plan is scrapped and a new aircraft/crew pairing is arranged.

You non K4 types are missing the real point. It ain't about the f*%^ing duty days! Pay attention... I will try to use the smallest words I can so that you hopefully understand. It is about having the leader of the e-board and his cronies trying to make us the sacrificial (know that is kind of a big word, but it means to kill something) lamb in the war on DHL. And, directly hurting the pilot group with their actions.

Too much to respond to all in one post.

Besides, now I'm woozy on all the Kool-Aid.

Flexibility?
Competitors?
Smaller operation?
Personal axe to grind?

One word: Culture.

Important difference at Atlas is the change in CULTURE over the years. Atlas was also a 400-500 pilot operation for the vast majority of its history. There were NEVER 30 hour duty days required.

Sometimes they were asked, but we said no. Company is plenty profitable.

So basically a charter to fly drill bits and pipe from Houston to Bumfucistan comes to the market. Everyone bids for it but Connie can under bid everyone else because he can schedule you guys from Houston to Bumfucistan and on to Hong Kong with no commercial positioning or hotels. Good for you but better for Connie. Crap for the rest of us on both precedent and job security. Sorry for not jumping up and down in support for you.

Spoken like a true company man!

Kalitta would remain plenty profitable even if you had 18 hour duty days. Atlas certainly does.

And if we were to carry the duty day argument to its logical conclusion, during their next contract negotiations airline X pilots would accept a 32 hour duty day with a six man crew to remain competitive then airline Y would accept a 36 hour duty day with an 8 man crew, etc. etc.

Then maybe airline Z pilots decide that in order for their airline to remain competitive they should accept coach seats for all dead head travel.

It is creating a race to the bottom.

Insisting on working conditions and pay that are better than other airlines is the only raise the bar for the entire industry.

8

Sounds like these Atlas guys would love to have part 117 in the supplemental world...

You missed that part about the pilots making more money. It isn't just about Connie. And, quite frankly, I don't think that I would actually choose to spend a night in Bumfucistan. Nor ride in/out on whatever airline actually serves there. Much safer to be on our plane.

I don't wish you guys anything other than an amazing contact that gives you better QOL and $ than we got. But, from your position, I hardly find a place for you to ***** that we are dragging you down. BTW, I was an Atlas pilot briefly between K4 v1.0 and the current company. When the opportunity to come back was presented, I chose wisely...

Another reply...

No, it is not about raising the bar. Or, lowering it. It is about reality.

We at K4 have a different business model than any of the other 1224 carriers. ATSG and Atlas have hung their hats on ACMI as the bread and butter of their business model. Kalitta, not so much.

So, for you, the duty day is a non player. DHL or Amazon schedules will never put this in play. So, why do you care? It isn't your concern. You will never be affected by it. Your company's customers are not going to present you with the choice to double crew a trip to West Beserkistan and press on to civilization.

And, let's look at it from a pilot's perspective. Would you rather get 16 hours of full pay in a 24 hour day? Or, 8 hours of full pay, spend a day in a hotel and then get 4 hours of pay (50% deadhead) to ride out on a questionable carrier in a a two day period?

Last time I checked, this career was about dollars and days off. From my perspective, the A plan is more money, less time, and better for me.

Oh, just in case I forgot to mention it....

Top tier pay among ACMI carriers

True home basing without having to pay the IRS for travel/hotel

Best health care insurance among all of the 1224 carriers

Business class travel

Never having to be extended or worry about answering the phone on a day off

Yup. Our contract just sucks...

Can somebody remind me what airline most of pilots at the Kalitta informational picketing were from?

OCSKYGUY, just sent you a PM.