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Pumperpilot 06-30-2023 06:32 AM


Originally Posted by ObadiahDogberry (Post 3658156)
I think chapter 11 is the next step. They said back in February that the plan was to have 8 operating MD-11s, 5 fully operating and 3 operational spares, with the rest being parked and used for parts. So drawing down the MD-11 fleet should not come as any surprise to anyone who has been paying attention for the last five months or so. The 747 fleet seems to be in relatively high demand, outside of the staffing issues. But the staffing issues are being addressed by moving more MD guys over to the 747 fleet.

Chapter 11 implies you have something to act as collateral. Since the planes are leased from the owners leasing company to WGA and already encumbered, WGA in fact has ZERO assets. Plus they have defaulted on previous loans to restructure debt. Neff wins in both cases. Chapter 7 is the most likely scenario.

Cujo665 06-30-2023 06:36 AM


Originally Posted by Pumperpilot (Post 3658667)
Chapter 11 implies you have something to act as collateral. Since the planes are leased from the owners leasing company to WGA and already encumbered, WGA in fact has ZERO assets. Plus they have defaulted on previous loans to restructure debt. Neff wins in both cases. Chapter 7 is the most likely scenario.

Capacity Purchase Contracts are themselves borrowable assets. You'd be surprised the things that are considered of value.

Birdsmash 06-30-2023 06:41 AM

Jim N knows how to stuff his pockets. If he bought the debt he has found a way to make more $ or lose less.

Wingdeagle11 06-30-2023 06:41 AM


Originally Posted by Pumperpilot (Post 3658667)
Chapter 11 implies you have something to act as collateral. Since the planes are leased from the owners leasing company to WGA and already encumbered, WGA in fact has ZERO assets. Plus they have defaulted on previous loans to restructure debt. Neff wins in both cases. Chapter 7 is the most likely scenario.

I might be wrong here, but I was under the impression that all aircraft except for one have been transferred directly to WGA as part of the ESOP program ?

Wingdeagle11 06-30-2023 06:44 AM


Originally Posted by Birdsmash (Post 3658680)
Jim N knows how to stuff his pockets. If he bought the debt he has found a way to make more $ or lose less.

That’s why he’s very rich while we’re spending our precious time on APC 😆 !

Pumperpilot 06-30-2023 07:29 AM


Originally Posted by ObadiahDogberry (Post 3658156)
I think chapter 11 is the next step. They said back in February that the plan was to have 8 operating MD-11s, 5 fully operating and 3 operational spares, with the rest being parked and used for parts. So drawing down the MD-11 fleet should not come as any surprise to anyone who has been paying attention for the last five months or so. The 747 fleet seems to be in relatively high demand, outside of the staffing issues. But the staffing issues are being addressed by moving more MD guys over to the 747 fleet.


Originally Posted by Wingdeagle11 (Post 3658684)
That’s why he’s very rich while we’re spending our precious time on APC 😆 !

Jim Neff has the movie Wall Street on repeat!!!

dera 07-01-2023 08:15 PM


Originally Posted by Birdsmash (Post 3658680)
Jim N knows how to stuff his pockets. If he bought the debt he has found a way to make more $ or lose less.

The current theory is that he bought the debt for pennies on the dollar to gain first lien rights, so he'll be the first to get paid in bankruptcy. That'll be a nasty lawsuit, as that kind of arrangement is illegal. The second in line debtors will sue the living f'ck out of him.

Wingdeagle11 07-02-2023 05:28 AM


Originally Posted by dera (Post 3659463)
The current theory is that he bought the debt for pennies on the dollar to gain first lien rights, so he'll be the first to get paid in bankruptcy. That'll be a nasty lawsuit, as that kind of arrangement is illegal. The second in line debtors will sue the living f'ck out of him.

I just wonder if those folks coming up with this theory really believe that a veteran businessman like JN, who made a fortune in the aviation industry is not aware that this kind of
arrangement is illegal and will risk a lawsuit ? He probably never consults his lawyers either ? If only pilots could be in charge of business decisions LOL

WGTruth 07-02-2023 01:28 PM


Originally Posted by Wingdeagle11 (Post 3659525)
I just wonder if those folks coming up with this theory really believe that a veteran businessman like JN, who made a fortune in the aviation industry is not aware that this kind of arrangement is illegal and will risk a lawsuit ? He probably never consults his lawyers either ? If only pilots could be in charge of business decisions LOL

Your dear leader CAUSED this financial crisis by overloading the company with debt when the ESOP was formed. He pocketed the money that was raised from some of the bond sale (unsecured creditors) and used that exact same money to purchase distressed debt (from only the secured creditors) at fire sale prices. Or maybe he used the COVID relief millions (that WG wasn't entitled to) to buy the distressed debt? Who knows? What we do know is that he caused this entire crisis and he became the only one to profit from it! "Veteran businessman," or fraudster? The courts will get to make that determination.

This current outcome is good for only a couple of groups, the lawyers and the forensic accountants. WG's credit and reputation are destroyed. Any objective observer can see what happened here and it's going to be hard to find new investors or customers. With the current low level of flying and maintenance issues with the few planes that do fly, how long can WG survive?

Wingdeagle11 07-02-2023 10:45 PM


Originally Posted by WGTruth (Post 3659716)
Your dear leader CAUSED this financial crisis by overloading the company with debt when the ESOP was formed. He pocketed the money that was raised from some of the bond sale (unsecured creditors) and used that exact same money to purchase distressed debt (from only the secured creditors) at fire sale prices. Or maybe he used the COVID relief millions (that WG wasn't entitled to) to buy the distressed debt? Who knows? What we do know is that he caused this entire crisis and he became the only one to profit from it! "Veteran businessman," or fraudster? The courts will get to make that determination.

This current outcome is good for only a couple of groups, the lawyers and the forensic accountants. WG's credit and reputation are destroyed. Any objective observer can see what happened here and it's going to be hard to find new investors or customers. With the current low level of flying and maintenance issues with the few planes that do fly, how long can WG survive?

Long enough for most of us to get new jobs if needed and watch your personal long term plans fade away. Your frustration is understandable.


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