Harassment Claim filed against ABX Management
06-14-2018, 04:28 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,912
The best route the crew could have taken would have been to call fatigue.
Does ABX provide it’s crews and Ops personnel with Fatigue Education and Awareness Training?
Either something’s missing or there has to be more to the story.
After all, the OP provides a “Disclaimer” before an accounting of the events that occurred.
Does ABX provide it’s crews and Ops personnel with Fatigue Education and Awareness Training?
Either something’s missing or there has to be more to the story.
After all, the OP provides a “Disclaimer” before an accounting of the events that occurred.
06-14-2018, 04:37 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 184
Yeah should’ve been a fatigue call. I would’ve just said “screw it” I’m fatigued. I know personally that things between ABX and the regionals are very different though. They still have that old airline mentality. When I was in recurrent for my regional last year, our chief pilot spoke in front of our class and encouraged fatigue calls if it’s legitimate. And we don’t even do the back side of the clock flying like ABX does. The trips at ABX can be very fatiguing.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
06-14-2018, 05:23 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by TheBrightside
Disclaimer; I am not the person that this happened to. I am relaying it to the community for educational purposes. The post will keep to the facts and let you draw your own conclusion about the present state of the ABX work environment.
For those with limited time I'll start with the TLDR of the post.
TLDR;
An HR complaint filed on the chief pilot and DO of ops at ABX. Harassment charges have been file forcing a Captain to fly his flight when hit hotel had and fire and the entire hotel guests were not allowed back in for almost an hour. There was another hour of no electricity in a hotel in the islands with high heat. He was suppose to get ready for his trip during this time. Scheduling approved him getting a new hotel and resetting his crew rest. The chief pilot called and wanted to change his report time. A follow up call by the DO he was told to either fatigue out or fly the trip else there would be penalties.
Details
June 7th;
Removed from a flight due to crew rest issue. Sent to a none compliant hotel on a lower income island nation.
Woken by a call around three hours after check in from an angry hotel staff. The airline had not paid for the rooms.
A request was made to scheduling to reset the ten hour crew rest due to the interruption. This was approved. The were notified that they would commercial back to the US the next day in the morning.
June 8th;
The next morning the crew met for breakfast. There was still the issue of non payment. The crew went to get in the van but scheduling informed them they would be operating a flight and to go back to the hotel.
Several hours later after having difficulty sleeping a fire alarm went off. Initially the crew was told it was a false alarm. They were told to return to their rooms. Approximately twenty minutes later we were informed that there was smoke and to evacuate to the parking lot. They were told to leave everything and go.
A call was made to scheduling to make them aware of the situation.
One hour later before the show time a call was made to scheduling to request crew rest. The reason for this is that the crews rest had been interrupted multiple times due to varying problems. The had spent that last hour standing in a high heat, high humidity environment with no reprieve.
The captain was contacted by the chief pilot. The chief tried to get the captain to accept that the fire alarm going off the first time could be considered their show time. The crew members at this time could not return to their rooms to collect their belongings.
A call is made to scheduling approximately half an hour later after the crew is let back in. Scheduling approves their ten hours of rest. The hotel has no power. The elevator and air conditioning system are inoperative.
A call is made to the captain from the chief pilot. The chief pilot presses for the time change and heavily presses the captain to try to go. Being physiologically incapable of operating in a safe manner the captain stood by the fact that he needed more rest.
The DO calls. He informs the captain it is a legal assignment. The captain has a choice of either calling out fatigued or flying the trip. This was viewed as an ultimatum with no flexibility. Those were the only two options given.
The captain felt his safety was never addressed. He felt pressured into doing something he didn't feel comfortable doing. He also felt that management never cared about the issues of the crew. They only wanted them to complete their tasks.
For those with limited time I'll start with the TLDR of the post.
TLDR;
An HR complaint filed on the chief pilot and DO of ops at ABX. Harassment charges have been file forcing a Captain to fly his flight when hit hotel had and fire and the entire hotel guests were not allowed back in for almost an hour. There was another hour of no electricity in a hotel in the islands with high heat. He was suppose to get ready for his trip during this time. Scheduling approved him getting a new hotel and resetting his crew rest. The chief pilot called and wanted to change his report time. A follow up call by the DO he was told to either fatigue out or fly the trip else there would be penalties.
Details
June 7th;
Removed from a flight due to crew rest issue. Sent to a none compliant hotel on a lower income island nation.
Woken by a call around three hours after check in from an angry hotel staff. The airline had not paid for the rooms.
A request was made to scheduling to reset the ten hour crew rest due to the interruption. This was approved. The were notified that they would commercial back to the US the next day in the morning.
June 8th;
The next morning the crew met for breakfast. There was still the issue of non payment. The crew went to get in the van but scheduling informed them they would be operating a flight and to go back to the hotel.
Several hours later after having difficulty sleeping a fire alarm went off. Initially the crew was told it was a false alarm. They were told to return to their rooms. Approximately twenty minutes later we were informed that there was smoke and to evacuate to the parking lot. They were told to leave everything and go.
A call was made to scheduling to make them aware of the situation.
One hour later before the show time a call was made to scheduling to request crew rest. The reason for this is that the crews rest had been interrupted multiple times due to varying problems. The had spent that last hour standing in a high heat, high humidity environment with no reprieve.
The captain was contacted by the chief pilot. The chief tried to get the captain to accept that the fire alarm going off the first time could be considered their show time. The crew members at this time could not return to their rooms to collect their belongings.
A call is made to scheduling approximately half an hour later after the crew is let back in. Scheduling approves their ten hours of rest. The hotel has no power. The elevator and air conditioning system are inoperative.
A call is made to the captain from the chief pilot. The chief pilot presses for the time change and heavily presses the captain to try to go. Being physiologically incapable of operating in a safe manner the captain stood by the fact that he needed more rest.
The DO calls. He informs the captain it is a legal assignment. The captain has a choice of either calling out fatigued or flying the trip. This was viewed as an ultimatum with no flexibility. Those were the only two options given.
The captain felt his safety was never addressed. He felt pressured into doing something he didn't feel comfortable doing. He also felt that management never cared about the issues of the crew. They only wanted them to complete their tasks.
06-14-2018, 08:31 AM
#15
El Capitan
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 615
Originally Posted by Av8er1550
Yeah should’ve been a fatigue call. I would’ve just said “screw it” I’m fatigued. I know personally that things between ABX and the regionals are very different though. They still have that old airline mentality. When I was in recurrent for my regional last year, our chief pilot spoke in front of our class and encouraged fatigue calls if it’s legitimate. And we don’t even do the back side of the clock flying like ABX does. The trips at ABX can be very fatiguing.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
06-14-2018, 10:50 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 207
Originally Posted by Kougarok
It’s a little more complicated then that. Why should the pilot have to call in fatigued and be charged a sick day when it’s obviously the companies fault? The company should have extended his rest period due to the fire alarm, schedule rollback and ineptitude on the hotel bill.
Anyone who has been in the biz for a while knows sometimes it (sleep) just doesn't work for you. The problems can be personal or physical...regardless those are when you should be required to dip into your sick bank. It may be day one, day middle, or day last of your sequence, who cares; if you're not rested....no flying! If the cause(s) are not individual then its even worse since both crewmembers will not be rested.
Companies should place in their hotel contracts requests for notification of occurrences that may be of concern for day-time sleepers. I don't know of any hotels that preforms fire alarm maintenance at 3a.m., nor fix bathroom tiles and plumbing at those hours. Better airlines will have this in their agreements and notify (and move) their crewmember to alternate facilities for a few days based on information provided by the hotel.
06-14-2018, 03:11 PM
#19
El Capitan
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 615
I’ve looked at the actual report from the Captain involved. The gist of what happened is close on this Forum but not exact. It was a mediocre edit. The original has very good grammar for you grammar nazis. One of the key points is he did end up calling off fatigued after being pressured by the DO.
Turning into a real **** show here!
Turning into a real **** show here!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
