Atlas pilots deserve better? Teamsters 1224 v
01-02-2019, 01:44 AM
#91
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 95
Originally Posted by nitefr8dog
Amazon and DHL have little to do with the jobs at ABX.....its all management . Little man syndrome, even if it costs more money or lost profits. To caught up in being able to say " because I said so" even if it costs millions more. At one time crews where being paid 1250$ more each day for Captain's and 750$ for FO's instead for putting catering on which was the unions proposal. The answer..no catering! That will teach am! ABX could have bought a catering company for what they spent in a 3 mo period until they fixed the lines. That is one of a thousand different events that their attorneys have convinced them they can break the union over. The crews just laughed and bought better catering.
- Atlas Air Crew Services AACS(crew leasing company in STN union busting Atlas union).
- Global Supply System GSS (new airline in Europe created by Atlas for union busting Atlas union).
- FSI the third party company our flight attendants are hired and work under.
- Using F&E maintenance with only a few actual A&P's hired by Atlas.
- ETC
- ETC
- ETC
At least the first two got taken out under IBT before we went backwards with this administration.
We were slowly cleaning them out until this recently un-elected administration via a last minute E-board expansion of the Atlas ExCo numbers (5 to 7) to the number running for office. Thus no election, just placement of the 7 raised hands vs an election of 5. No one could be bounced.
Originally Posted by deus ex machina
It's not what you fly, it's who you fly for....
reading this thread, Atlas guys are in a netherworld... how can you explain something is better out there when Atlas guys don't even know what better is....
If they want to be convinced that ALPA sucks, go for it... but ALPA sucks less than everyone else, simply due to the resources... the IBT doesn't have near the funds, institutional knowledge and resources as ALPA... If you don't have the funds and ability to strike the company owns the negotiation process.. combine that with Trump NMB and the only thing that is going to compel management to negotiate is labor peace and stability... if they don't see that value then you guys are screwed....
As I said... WB FOs at my carrier make more than B747 CAs at Atlas.. and that is just the pay rate... the work rules, benefits and retirement will make you weep.
But hey, you're flying the Queen.
reading this thread, Atlas guys are in a netherworld... how can you explain something is better out there when Atlas guys don't even know what better is....
If they want to be convinced that ALPA sucks, go for it... but ALPA sucks less than everyone else, simply due to the resources... the IBT doesn't have near the funds, institutional knowledge and resources as ALPA... If you don't have the funds and ability to strike the company owns the negotiation process.. combine that with Trump NMB and the only thing that is going to compel management to negotiate is labor peace and stability... if they don't see that value then you guys are screwed....
As I said... WB FOs at my carrier make more than B747 CAs at Atlas.. and that is just the pay rate... the work rules, benefits and retirement will make you weep.
But hey, you're flying the Queen.
We spent a number of years fighting among ourselves (Atlas-Polar) under ALPA and it collectively severely stagnated our contract growth. ALPA picked one side and sabotaged the larger group. "ALPA Unit 1" even told us about it and that verified what Prater as ALPA's leader at the time was doing to us. It cost us years in an improved CBA for our now unified group of 10 airlines under Local 1224. Many of which operate for DHL/Amazon.
Our stagnation was a result of ALPA's and the the smaller carrier's hate of the ACMI world though they were happy to take our dues money while shooting us collectively in the foot.
That got fixed with decertifying them and booting out of office a number of the problems but chewed up a lot of time. We should have one more CBA behind us but don't due to this ALPA sabotage.
So while our current leadership like JonnyKnoxville works the union business pay system and union compensated helpers like DC8Driver work there angle, it won't last for long. The remaining membership that gets some time under their belts here will start seeing how the failed past tactics of pre-Atlas/Polar merger repeating themselves now.
It's easier to elect new leadership that actually upholds their promises than decertify. I know being one of the guys who accomplished it the last time and knowing exactly what ALPA will do to us if we go back.
01-02-2019, 03:38 AM
#92
O.T. Freight Dog
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Former 747 Captain
Posts: 150
Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville
Maybe when ALPA can deliver a contract that pays their entire pilot group the total compensation that the IPA Union has achieved for their pilot group, then you can climb back on your high horse. For now, you and your ALPA carrier are playing second fiddle at best.
Now that is funny! IPA has done NOTHING for the Atlas pilots except take the largest percentage of dues that any other pilot group is paying. Good for those on the board that are making 300k doing UB and eating prime rib and king prawns on the union members dime. *********g pathetic.
01-02-2019, 03:40 AM
#93
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
IPA represents UPS pilots
IBT represents Atlas pilots (and others)
IBT represents Atlas pilots (and others)
01-02-2019, 03:49 AM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
Originally Posted by FR8Dog7
"IPA Union has achieved for their pilot group"
Now that is funny! IPA has done NOTHING for the Atlas pilots except take the largest percentage of dues that any other pilot group is paying. Good for those on the board that are making 300k doing UB and eating prime rib and king prawns on the union members dime. *********g pathetic.
Now that is funny! IPA has done NOTHING for the Atlas pilots except take the largest percentage of dues that any other pilot group is paying. Good for those on the board that are making 300k doing UB and eating prime rib and king prawns on the union members dime. *********g pathetic.
01-02-2019, 06:01 AM
#95
O.T. Freight Dog
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Former 747 Captain
Posts: 150
Originally Posted by FR8Dog7
"IPA Union has achieved for their pilot group"
Now that is funny! IPA has done NOTHING for the Atlas pilots except take the largest percentage of dues that any other pilot group is paying. Good for those on the board that are making 300k doing UB and eating prime rib and king prawns on the union members dime. *********g pathetic.
Now that is funny! IPA has done NOTHING for the Atlas pilots except take the largest percentage of dues that any other pilot group is paying. Good for those on the board that are making 300k doing UB and eating prime rib and king prawns on the union members dime. *********g pathetic.
Damn, I missed that completely! But then again I am not a Union guy like J.K. is that posted it. Change mine to IBT! Dave Bourne and his bunch of broken promise maker cronies!
01-02-2019, 12:36 PM
#96
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 312
Originally Posted by scrupulous
Doesn't sound too unlike:
At least the first two got taken out under IBT before we went backwards with this administration.
We were slowly cleaning them out until this recently un-elected administration via a last minute E-board expansion of the Atlas ExCo numbers (5 to 7) to the number running for office. Thus no election, just placement of the 7 raised hands vs an election of 5. No one could be bounced.
We spent a number of years fighting among ourselves (Atlas-Polar) under ALPA and it collectively severely stagnated our contract growth. ALPA picked one side and sabotaged the larger group. "ALPA Unit 1" even told us about it and that verified what Prater as ALPA's leader at the time was doing to us. It cost us years in an improved CBA for our now unified group of 10 airlines under Local 1224. Many of which operate for DHL/Amazon.
Our stagnation was a result of ALPA's and the the smaller carrier's hate of the ACMI world though they were happy to take our dues money while shooting us collectively in the foot.
That got fixed with decertifying them and booting out of office a number of the problems but chewed up a lot of time. We should have one more CBA behind us but don't due to this ALPA sabotage.
So while our current leadership like JonnyKnoxville works the union business pay system and union compensated helpers like DC8Driver work there angle, it won't last for long. The remaining membership that gets some time under their belts here will start seeing how the failed past tactics of pre-Atlas/Polar merger repeating themselves now.
It's easier to elect new leadership that actually upholds their promises than decertify. I know being one of the guys who accomplished it the last time and knowing exactly what ALPA will do to us if we go back.
- Atlas Air Crew Services AACS(crew leasing company in STN union busting Atlas union).
- Global Supply System GSS (new airline in Europe created by Atlas for union busting Atlas union).
- FSI the third party company our flight attendants are hired and work under.
- Using F&E maintenance with only a few actual A&P's hired by Atlas.
- ETC
- ETC
- ETC
At least the first two got taken out under IBT before we went backwards with this administration.
We were slowly cleaning them out until this recently un-elected administration via a last minute E-board expansion of the Atlas ExCo numbers (5 to 7) to the number running for office. Thus no election, just placement of the 7 raised hands vs an election of 5. No one could be bounced.
We spent a number of years fighting among ourselves (Atlas-Polar) under ALPA and it collectively severely stagnated our contract growth. ALPA picked one side and sabotaged the larger group. "ALPA Unit 1" even told us about it and that verified what Prater as ALPA's leader at the time was doing to us. It cost us years in an improved CBA for our now unified group of 10 airlines under Local 1224. Many of which operate for DHL/Amazon.
Our stagnation was a result of ALPA's and the the smaller carrier's hate of the ACMI world though they were happy to take our dues money while shooting us collectively in the foot.
That got fixed with decertifying them and booting out of office a number of the problems but chewed up a lot of time. We should have one more CBA behind us but don't due to this ALPA sabotage.
So while our current leadership like JonnyKnoxville works the union business pay system and union compensated helpers like DC8Driver work there angle, it won't last for long. The remaining membership that gets some time under their belts here will start seeing how the failed past tactics of pre-Atlas/Polar merger repeating themselves now.
It's easier to elect new leadership that actually upholds their promises than decertify. I know being one of the guys who accomplished it the last time and knowing exactly what ALPA will do to us if we go back.
Now, the ALPA President is an all Cargo guy...
How long do you hold onto what happened last decade? Times change...
BTW we don't like negotiating against your poor wages... I'm sure you do... you're welcome.
01-02-2019, 12:52 PM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
DEM
You really make ALPA look petty and your really not doing your party any favors. You ignore any choice any other pilot group chooses, yet then bally hoo how it is up to the pilots to decide their future. You really ought to review your postings on the topic. Your contradictions are amusing to many of us
Your lack of comment on my and others specific questions for you in previous posts is also expected.
Oh well.
Cheers
You really make ALPA look petty and your really not doing your party any favors. You ignore any choice any other pilot group chooses, yet then bally hoo how it is up to the pilots to decide their future. You really ought to review your postings on the topic. Your contradictions are amusing to many of us
Your lack of comment on my and others specific questions for you in previous posts is also expected.
Oh well.
Cheers
01-02-2019, 02:42 PM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 182
Originally Posted by deus ex machina
Now, the ALPA President is an all Cargo guy...
Besides, Atlas is not an all cargo airline. Our passenger operations are larger than some ALPA airlines’ are.
01-02-2019, 05:28 PM
#99
O.T. Freight Dog
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Former 747 Captain
Posts: 150
Originally Posted by CallmeJB
What difference does that make? I’ve never seen union governance that was tailored to the type of revenue being transported.
Besides, Atlas is not an all cargo airline. Our passenger operations are larger than some ALPA airlines’ are.
Besides, Atlas is not an all cargo airline. Our passenger operations are larger than some ALPA airlines’ are.
And Kirschner and Bourne really don't care as long as the $$ keep rolling in! Prime rib and king prawns for everyone!
01-02-2019, 05:51 PM
#100
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 312
So what you're telling me is... with less resources, funds and experience the IBT is going to deliver Atlas pilots a contract equal to any similar type pilot group at ALPA....
Let me know when.... meanwhile enjoy the Queen...
Let me know when.... meanwhile enjoy the Queen...
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