NeverHome

Remember that there were more than 2 that upgraded quickly. 2 of the quick upgrades did have extensive 757 time. Both also had extensive heavy time. These were not some junior pilots who just managed to get lucky, they were the real deal with experience.

So no, not false. Just because you think you can name 2 guys doesn’t exclude the fact that 2 were highly experienced.

senecacaptain

RE: "upgraded quickly"

are "quick upgrades" to Captain based on seniority (your number is up, time to upgrade...) or based on the First Officer corps who have certain time and experience.

FO Jones was hired in Jan 2018 and had extensive 757 C-32 time from the Air Force, and ocean crossings.

FO Wang was hired in Jan 2018 and was a RJ pilot who flew in heavily congested airspace in the Northeast and dealt with ice, snow, and busy ATC.

Both have 5,000 HRS, 2,000 turbine PIC, 757 type, and ATP.

Will FO Jones "upgrade" faster than Wang ? If yes, this appears to be a different system than the majors/legacy method of moving over to Captain.

another post previous alluded that one "quick upgrade" was friends with the Chief Pilot. Is this a factor also ?

nitefr8dog

The friend of mine I referred to was with his Captain in CVG. This was 2 months ago. His Captain was an older gentleman who had been at ATI 11 months at that time. It sounded like he had lots of ACMI experience..DC9, 727, etc. This was not a hugh challenge for him.

NeverHome

Excellent questions.

Simple answer is this: if you are eligible you may submit your upgrade bid. Of the submitted upgrade bids, regardless of past experience, it is seniority based. If your in the upgrade pool, then hired first upgrade first.

Also note that once on the line bidding schedules is all about seniority.

Lastly there are a lot of pilots who are friends with management or training department. In a smaller company that is expected. However I know of no instances where seniority was intentionally violated because someone was buddy buddy.

So basically it’s like most other 121s, seniority is still king.

nitefr8dog

Does not seam to be the case is someone with 11 mos was able to upgrade.....just saying. Of course maybe there was a hugh amount of attrition.

Fixnem2Flyinem

Outside of the 90 original pilots at ATI. Everyone has been hired since 2016. Most hired through early 2018 have now upgraded due to growth (airframes added). Late 2018 through current is about 45% of the company, so yes there are junior guys getting awarded upgrades because...wait for it...The bottom of the list has been hired within the last two years.

Now why is that someone can get an upgrade at 11 months vs someone with two years?? It has nothing to do with the laughable reasons I’ve read above, like being buddies with the chief. We do have a contract, with requirements and criteria for upgrades just like any other unionized carrier. The reason is because you need to have 1000 hours of time in a 121 plane more than 60k in order to upgrade here. Since we hire from all sorts of backgrounds, some have the time and some don’t. It’s pretty obvious that it will take one longer to upgrade if they lack that experience before being able to submit a bid. That is the main reason why some junior folks are getting awarded (Like the few right around a year), because the pilots senior to them are still working on that 1000hrs. That is the situation, currently.

wjcandee

Well, if you're adding 13 767s over the course of 2 years to a then-fleet of 24 aircraft (i.e. around a 50-percent increase), and you have people (as you do everywhere) who aren't yet eligible for the left seat, or aren't yet choosing the responsibility of sitting there, despite having higher seniority numbers, it's not crazy. Add in the fact that there were at least a few ATI captains who couldn't resist a call from a major, and there you have it.

With the 4 757Fs being idled recently, and the 757 Combis doing a little less flying, there's probably a bit of a cushion for the moment.

In an environment where the fleet size is more-constant or declining, then certainly it would never happen without shenanigans being involved.

Fixnem2Flyinem

Yup

filler

senecacaptain

To further this discussion, in light of the recently announced 10+ airplane lease by Amazon (flown by ATI?),

1. what is the upgrade time for a non-over 60k pound aircraft new hire, who is hired today June 2020. He has zero, no, hours in aircraft greater than 60k pounds

2. how many hours annually will this guy actually fly. can he raise his hand to fly more ? does that exist at ATI ?

3. when will interviews begin again ? Sounds like they were going strong until Feb then COVID and/or the economy (or both) stopped interviews ?

4. How is the training program ?

Thank you

NeverHome

0. No idea if ATI is getting the birds. No official announcement either way.

1. it depends partly on your previous PIC experience. If you have PIC in a transport category aircraft that will count. If you read the ATI contract it has the details there (google it, contract is out there).

2. plan on approximately 500hrs a year. That’s a busy schedule for us. It’s possible to do more but that’s not necessarily the norm.

3. No idea about interviews. We had a pretty full pool when Covid hit. So we have been hiring and interviewing from those whose name was already in the hat. Maybe soon, see point 0.

4. Excellent. They are willing to work with you and are not out to bust you. If you put in the effort they will too. I had no complaints. Plus side note, full pay during training! So that’s a plus as well.